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1minionsopinionThe Fort Hood shooter is a Muslim and was on President Obama’s Homeland Security panel that was advising the Obama Administration transition team!
Posted by princessxxx on November 10, 2009
Bill Keller daily dullvotional 9/10/09
The Fort Hood shooter is a Muslim and was on President Obama’s Homeland Security panel that was advising the Obama Administration transition team! Why would anyone be surprised the man responsible for 12 deaths to date, dozens injured, on a US Army base was none other than Major Malik Nidal Hasan…a devout Muslim! Since Thursday’s massacre, tons of evidence has surfaced that this man was on record about his views against our war on those who want to destroy this nation and his allegiance to this false region of hate and death.
Why will the US military not honorably discharge ALL who claim Islam as their religion? In the end, their allegiance is NOT to this nation but to the satanically inspired teachings of Mohammed. Hasan is a highly educated man who rose to the rank of MAJOR in the US Army. When “jihad” is declared in this nation, all those who follow the lies of Islam will rise up just like Major Hasan did!!! ALL MUSLIMS ARE LOYAL TO THE TEACHINGS OF HATE AND DEATH THAT HAS BEEN PART OF THIS FALSE RELIGION SINCE IT WAS FOUNDED 1400 YEARS AGO!!!
So you still think Islam is a “religion of peace?” Even before 9/11, I have tried my best to warn people about the false religion of Islam. Islam is a false religion dreamed up by a Mecca businessman named Muhammed 1400 years ago that has been spread from day one by hatred and death and has led the souls of those who followed its lies to the eternal flames of hell. It is the fastest growing religion in the world with nearly 2 billion people on the planet following the teachings of the Qu’ran, the book of fables Muhammed inspired that makes up the theology of this false religion. While Muslims like to claim they are a religion of love and peace, their teachings and actions over 1400 years continually prove they are about hatred and death. Of course there will be Muslim apologists who say that these are only the extremists, just like they try to distance themselves from their brothers in this “peaceful religion” who flew the planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the one intended for the Capital building that was crashed in a Pennsylvania field by some real American heroes. Do you remember a few years ago when there was a cartoon in a Dutch newspaper depicting Muhammed with a bomb in his headdress? There were riots and people were actually killed over a CARTOON! Remember a year or so ago when Pope Benedict simply shared the historical fact that Islam was spread by violence and death and the Catholic churches that were burned down and the nuns killed by Muslims protesting his statements?
Do you remember the Islamic activist group CAIR that has ties to terrorist groups and operates in this country as an “advocacy group” for Muslims, and their 4 year campaign to take the Liveprayer TV program off this air for simply having the audacity to tell the truth about their false religion? After 1,175 programs and 4 1/2 yrs on the air, the gutless executives at CBS who owned the station we had broadcast on in Tampa since March of 2003 finally caved in to the intimidation and fear of this group. Over the years they had been successful in silencing other media personalities from saying anything negative about Islam, and I am certain, emboldened by their intimidation of CBS, is now doing all they can to take radio talk show host Michael Savage off the air.
These people are not about love or peace or unity. They are about one thing. Converting the world to their false religion and those who get in their way or who refuse to follow their lies will be silenced and killed. The word “Islam” literally means “submission.” Maybe you don’t understand what it means when their “holy book” says “death to all infidels.” An “infidel” by their definition is anyone who has not converted to their false beliefs. This is their book. These are their teachings. THIS IS WHAT ALL MUSLIMS BELIEVE!
That is why I was stunned the other day when I came across an article about many high profile Christian leaders who are forming some sort of alliance with top Muslim leaders. Jim Wallis, president of Sojourners, Leith Anderson, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, Pastors Rick Warren of Saddleback and Bill Hybles of Willow Creek, and Robert E. Cooley, president emeritus of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, are just a few of the prominent Christians who have signed a letter issued by the Yale Center for Faith and Culture as a response to a letter signed last month by 138 representative Muslim leaders calling on the two Abrahamic faiths to love God and neighbors together.
Sounds nice doesn’t it? These Muslim clerics are not looking for love and peace, only mainstream acceptance! The very teachings of their false religion doesn’t call for this type of peace, only the DEATH of those who refuse to convert to their lies. I know these high profile Christians can’t be that stupid, so there has to be some other motivation. Sadly, I have documented for you in the past the key leaders who sold out in the 80s to Moon’s Unification Cult to give that lie from hell mainstream acceptance. Now, we have several very high profile prominent Christian leaders getting in bed with Muslim leaders!
Don’t these people read the Bible? The Bible says MUCH about who we associate with, about avoiding being associated with the wrong people. In Numbers 33:55, God warned Israel that bad associations would be a continual thorn in their side. In Exodus 34:12 and Ezra 9:14, Israel was specifically forbidden to develop relationships with ungodly nations. You can go all throughout the Bible and read God’s warnings and what He says about the type of relationships we enter into and those we associate with. That is why these ecumenical movements that seek to bring all the false religions and faiths of the world together as one is such a damnable lie. It is so damnable, in the final days there will be a One World Religion that all will be forced to be part of.
Some have asked what is wrong with being part of these groups with the false religions and cults of the world. Simple! THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH, THE TRUTH OF THE BIBLE. What is required when you enter into any of these ecumenical groups is that you lay aside the absolutes of the Bible. IT IS CALLED COMPROMISE, SOMETHING I HAVE PREACHED ON CONTINUALLY FOR 2 DECADES! IT IS COMPROMISE THAT HAS MADE THE CHURCH SO WEAK AND INEFFECTIVE. IT IS COMPROMISE THAT HAS ALLOWED SOME CHURCHES TO ACCEPT AND CONDONE SINS LIKE HOMOSEXUALITY AND ABORTION. IT IS COMPRISE THAT HAS CAUSED CHURCHES TO STOP BELIEVING AND TEACHING THAT THE BIBLE IS THE INSPIRED INERRANT WORD OF GOD, REPRESENTING ABSOLUTE TRUTH AND OUR FINAL AUTHORITY IN ALL MATTERS.
IT IS COMPROMISE THAT ALLOWS MEN AND WOMEN OF GOD TO ASSOCIATE WITH THOSE WHO FOLLOW RELIGIONS AND FAITHS IN COMPLETE REBELLION TO GOD, HIS TRUTH, AND HIS SON JESUS!!!
I love and care about you so much. I can only pray as I continue to sound this trump of warning that people will wake up. I cringe every time I hear people like President Obama state that Islam is a “religion of peace.” ISLAM HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT PEACE, ONLY DEATH! I have shared with you earlier this year how I felt that Islam would be the United States Babylon if we didn’t turn back to God and His Truth. As I watch what is happening in this nation I firmly believe that now even more than when the Holy Spirit led me to write that special message. Recently, a Muslim nation bought a 5% stake in Citicorp. The energy requirements of this nation are still tied almost exclusively to the oil we get out of Muslim nations. Muslims who have come to the United States have refused to assimilate into the American way of life, instead, are doing all they can to force Americans to assimilate into their way of life.
Also, please don’t buy this political correct lie that their are “good Muslims” and “bad Muslims.” By their own definition, a good Muslim is one who follows the Qu’ran and the teachings of Islam without question or deviation. The goal of Islam is to convert the world to their false religion, and if you don’t think they want to turn the United States into a Muslim nation, you have been sound asleep. The sad thing is, this has only happened because the church has quit being the church. Christians have taken themselves out of the marketplace and are hiding in the safety and profitability of the “Christian trough.” Sadly, many of those who have ventured into the marketplace have compromised the Gospel by entering into unholy alliances with cults like the Mormons and false religions like Islam.
If there was ever a time for the true followers of Christ to rise up it is now. Jesus is coming at any moment, the final days of human history are unfolding, and it is time to take our stand for Him and His Truth and help bring in that last great harvest of souls. The “allah” of Islam is NOT the God of the Bible, but an imaginary, murderous deity, a stone moon rock housed in the Kabba in Mecca. The Qu’ran is not a holy book, but a book of fables that calls for the death of all who refuse to follow its lies. Islam is NOT a religion of peace, but one of death. The only true peace there is comes from the Prince of Peace Himself, Jesus, the One who overcomes death and promises those who follow Him life, and life everlasting!
In His love and service, Your friend and brother in Christ, Bill Keller
princessxxx said
e_e, i didn’t post this to get you peeved.
this is just an example of how politics and religion are so tied together.
first of all, keller starts this off with a lie.
Hasan was NOT on Obama’s homeland security panel.
secondly, this goes against Kays argument that you can’t blame christianity for what some christians do. it is exactly the same thing.
thirdly, keller must not read his bible.
1 corinthians 5:9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”[b]
points well made.
Enkill_Eridos said
Oh I don’t care. Okay I didn’t want to make an executive descision like move 17 posts and more comments to ADKOB without approval from the peanut gallery. I didn’t actually expect anyone to say yay, since actually having a different site on religious opinions, sermons, etc. Was always ignored except by a couple. I am a student of history and the human animal. I knew the answer before I posted my post, I also knew that if I said okay I am transposing the Project Sanctuary stuff minus the rules to ADKOB just like that, it would not been recieved well. I do everything for a reason, every thing I say every inconistancy, unless it’s actually unintentional, is done for a reason. Which I usually start giving these reasons when I am tired of veiling my intentions. I just want people to push against antiquated sayings and beliefs (read my latest debate comment you will see what I am talking about.) Start opening their minds more. Either the person will become stronger in his or her own personal beliefs or see things differently. Walk a mile in a man’s shoes and you will know that man. Is not a literal saying, it is a metaphor. (duh?)
As for the post I saw it while it was a draft made me laugh it did. This verse makes me laugh as well. For many reasons, it shows a huge change of view from Jesus to the Apostles view. A spiritually enlightened man to just a man with big shoes to fill. I already know how politics and religion tie together. My family does it all the time, and I try to put a more realistic view on things. (Except for my grandma it really isn’t fun debating with her anymore since she is dieing and can’t hear so usually she says Yeah, and Praise Jesus. One time when I was inebriated I said something off the wall, even for me, she didn’t have her hearing aides in so she agreed. It was disheartening.
Princessxxx said
I EMAILED KELLER ABOUT THIS:
To: bkeller@liveprayer.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: THE FORT HOOD SHOOTER
I read your devotional today.
in it you state, “Don’t these people read the Bible? The Bible says MUCH about who we associate with, about avoiding being associated with the wrong people. In Numbers 33:55, God warned Israel that bad associations would be a continual thorn in their side. In Exodus 34:12 and Ezra 9:14, Israel was specifically forbidden to develop relationships with ungodly nations. You can go all throughout the Bible and read God’s warnings and what He says about the type of relationships we enter into and those we associate with. ”
are you familiar with 1 corinthians 5 : 12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. ?
HIS RESPONSE:
sorry my friend..you don’t know what you are talking about..we have every right..and RESPONSIBILITY to judge speech and actions.. ..according to the WORD OF GOD…
Know that I am praying for you, be richly blessed,
Bill Keller
Founder, http://www.liveprayer.com
BILL KELLER IS FULL OF CRAP.
kay~ms said
I agree with him P… The concept of “judging” is so misunderstood. Liberals think ALL judging is wrong but in the very verse you quoted it says..”Are you not to judge those inside? “. See, judging is allowed, necessary and our responsibility in some circumstances.
Bill is right.
kay~ms said
You are not taking that verse in the proper context…
Here are the previous verses…
9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”[b
What Paul is talking about here is the judging of the offense of hypocrisy. Paul cannot judge those who do not claim to be a part of the church on hypocrisy. They don’t propose to be something they are not (Christians). But those inside the church should be judged on their hypocrisy, their claim to be a Christian but not living as such.
Enkill_Eridos said
Matt. 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.”
Matt 7:2-5 “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly with honesty and justice, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other ignoble means, our judgment will reflect it and judging with fairness and compassion will garner likewise in His judgment of us]. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye [point out his sins, "minor" in Jesus' example here] and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye [our own sins, even and especially those we will not admit, magnified by our selective blindness]? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ [tell him of his "minor" sins] when all the time there is a plank in your own eye [that there are greater or the same sins in our own lives which we do nothing about or think we are above]? You hypocrite* [pointing out the sins of others while by pretense thinking of ourselves as above sin], first take the plank out of your own eye [sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness and learn and live the Truth and Light by His Word], and then you will see clearly [be in a righteous position] to remove the speck from your brother’s eye [to judge and to help him out of his bondage to sin].” At Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan, Jesus was talking to the multitudes gathered there after hearing of His message and of His healings to beseech them to not become like the pharisees and hypocrites who think they are above sin.
In short make sure you’re not judging from anger, or with the want of revenge, or maliciously. Remember that every judgment you make in such a way will come back to you.
1Cor. 6:2-3 Judge we must else we could not discern good from bad, proper from improper, righteousness from evil. But judge behavior, not the individual; the deed not the doer; the choice not the chooser. The individual/doer/chooser is accountable for his/her deed/choice, but judge the deed/choice in your judgment. Jesus could see a king in a shepherd boy. And an Apostle in a murderer. So while we must judge one’s behavior we must we try to nurture the goodness in an individual: to separate the deed from the doer.
Do I really need to explain these passages? I mean while (Christians) are allowed to judge they must also try to nurture the goodness in an individual. I mean it goes with love thy neighbor, and love thy enemy. Yes it is in Christians right to judge, actions. It is also a Christians duty to try as hard as they can to influence a person to become good. It doesn’t say to kill, based on these judgments. The bible does not say to incite fear and hatred in these judgments. The bible does warn against such actions, and it says you will be judged how you judged. In basic terms be careful when you judge, and try to change those actions you are judging negatively. In my opinion, If you say something that incites fear, or violence, between another of God’s creations. And then justify it saying it is righteous is just as bad, as those Jihadists that are blowing up “infidels”. They justify their actions by saying it was righteous. Does it make it right? No.
Too many people are spreading fear, and hatred towards Muslims in America. I can go through any newspaper in America and find a story that deals with someone, usually of Christian values, that tells a Muslim something out of hatred. In my area for instance a girl told a Muslim girl, “To take that thing off your head and act like a proud American.” All because the girl was exercising her right to both practice the religion of her choice, and because she did not say the Pledge of Allegiance. This kind of thing happens all the time? Are these actions right? Do these actions try to bring the “goodness” in an individual? I don’t think it does.
Princessxxx said
kay, i didn’t take it out of context,
as you will see in post #1.
it does not say one word of judging ‘hypocrisy” among the heathens.
once again, it says not to judge them on “immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters”.
where do you see the word hypocrisy?
what paul is saying is you are only to judge those other “churchies”,
leave the rest of us alone, that is gods job.
i’m glad to set you straight on this.
Daniel G Wilks said
I look at the fact that some of the infomation comming out is not correct the only thing we know is the shooter was also the base psychratric doctor and a Muslim. Adding on opinion as fact is misleading. He is soly responsable for his actions as a lone gunman. There is an investigation ongoing as to wether there was a Social enterpenuer whom programmed him to do so. If so then it will be determined as an act of Terrorism by legal defintion.
This reminds me of the Abortion clinic Doctors whom were shot by persons refred to by pastos as Soldiers for Christ and now you like to play judge on another faith. You talk about hipocracy and double standard.
Enkill_Eridos said
I don’t think anyone is saying the gunman is apart of a Terrorist cell, besides Bill. It was stated in comment #1 that Bill already lied.
As it is an ongoing investigation, per SOP in most cases, we will not know all the facts until it is over. At that time the Citizens will be notified. That is how this kind of case is handled in the military.
I apologize Daniel, but we do frequency hop at times, the current debate is how Bill Keller’s opinion on this subject is wrong. Because Bill Keller said things that were very judgmental of a religion he probably only knows a little about. Some of the things he said could be used to inspire hate, and fear of Muslims. Princess only pulled this post off Bill Keller’s blog. So after reading it (unless Princess does what I do and adds commentary, which I do not see) the only views of this blog are in the comments. Bill Keller has nothing to do with this blog past the point that our contributors sometimes like to post his devotionals, usually as something used to further their own agenda or point of view. We encourage this activity because it keeps things interesting.
I enjoy your last comment, would you like to speak more of your opinion on this topic?
kay~ms said
EE, yes, you have pointed out what Jesus means. Do not hypocritically judge.
You summed it up this way…
“In short make sure you’re not judging from anger, or with the want of revenge, or maliciously. Remember that every judgment you make in such a way will come back to you.”
Here is my summary of the meaning of these verses and the issue of judging others.
First, judging is necessary. It cannot be avoided.. it is crucial for our survival in some instances. If someone is known to not be honest from past experience, would you want to put your trust in them if your survival depended on it? (say in a combat situation for example). You have to make a judgment about this person and make your decision accordingly.
Another example, would you ask your neighbor, who’s been convicted of pedophilia to watch your child because your baby sitter was sick? You have to make a judgment about this person and act accordingly.
The liberal view on this is no different that the view that “all religions are the truth”. “We must not judge period. Judging is “wrong”.” But it is not only an impractical doctrine, it is impossible, just “like all religions are the truth.”
I understand that harm can come from judging… it’s a thin line between judging and hate.. just as it is a thin line between calling another’s religion false and having negative views about the people who follow these “religions”. But the answer is not to then apply an impossible and dishonest rule that we must avoid judging all together (it is not always wrong)… or that all religions are the truth.. it’s a lie! Once again, liberals apply a distorted and impossible doctrine to resolve a problem.
The judging that Jesus is talking about is the kind where people make moral judgments on others and, this is the crucial part, look down on them (elevate themselves), believe that they are better than that person who is doing the wrong, that we are “good” and they are “bad”. Basically, judging another person’s heart. We cannot do that. Only God knows what is in another’s heart (how good or bad they truly are). A person might be guilty of a moral offense, and we say to ourselves.. I don’t do that.. I’m better than that, yeah, it’s going to come back and bite you on the A**. Because while it may be true for that particular sin, there are plenty of others that we ARE guilty of.. no one person is better than the next.. we are all God’s children and He loves us all equally. He doesn’t like it when we judge others as less than ourselves because He does not see us that way. And we are showing an ignorance of our own sins of which NO ONE is without.
I can personally attest to the fact that is does come back on you when you judge others hypocritically. And it is actually one of the things that proves to me that God does exist. I grew to despised these people who were dishonest, partly because it had a direct affect on my job. I did look down on them and I elevated myself for being “good”. I think I hated them. And God set me straight in a big big way. It’s when hate enters the picture that it really is despised by God. God detests hypocrisy and hate.
And if Bill is guilty of these things God will let him know. And maybe He has because of the loss of his show. If that is the case, I believe Bill will figure it out because I truly believe that He desires to do God’s will. And does so more than any of us here.
P, Paul is stating that he has no right to judge those outside of the church.. and in the context of his words.. particularly:
11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler.”
“who calls himself a brother”. As Bill said, it is necessary for him to judge these people inside the church or it sends a message to others that what they are doing is ok.
As for outside of the church, are you saying that he never stated that what non Christians did was sinful? That he is saying not to point out what non Christians are doing as wrong according to God’s will? Because that was not the case and that is not what Paul meant when he said to not judge those outside of the church. He could not go out and preach the Gospel without pointing out to non believers their sins and therefore their need for Jesus. This is where liberals (non believers) get confused. Stating what is sin is NOT the same as judging them. Telling them that their actions are wrong according to God’s word is NOT judging them. Telling them that they are “no good” because of their sins IS judging them. And that is what is wrong. These are two different things. And liberals need to understand the difference and NOT HYPOCRITICALLY judge others because they don’t understand the difference.
Enkill_Eridos said
All I was saying is watch what you say, you want to bring people from a “false religion” saying things that could make believers fear and mistrust will not do it. If you don’t want to really learn what a religion believes in and live in ignorance on that fact, that’s fine. All decisions come with consequences. Saying that Christian leaders, being diplomatic is getting in bed with Muslim leaders. I mean maybe I am wrong, but to me Bill’s message is more like we shouldn’t try to come to an understanding and make peace. We shouldn’t try to make it so they think highly of us. Islam IS a religion of peace, the minority are the Fundamentalists that believe there should be a Jihad on the western world. In Iraq only maybe one or two clerics, the ones that so happened to benefit financially from Saddam being in power, tried to incite violence against us. Muslim Extremist Networks, are not vast. There are a handful of these networks. Bill is implying though that all Muslims are Fundamentalist Extremists. There are statements in his devotionals that can make certain people fear, mistrust, or hate Muslims. If that is his intentions or not that doesn’t matter. And Bill isn’t the only one saying these kinds of statements. Muslims are being persecuted, labeled, feared, mistrusted, and discriminated against throughout the country. It is not right and is Unamerican.
That is just as absurd as saying Christianity is a religion based on DEATH, that all Christians want to kill all non-Christians. <—- That statement is a false statement.
Justify it all you want, say it's right because they follow a false religion all you want. It goes against fundamental rights all Human Beings have. All Human Beings have a right to choose their own religion. If their views go against yours fine. But don't label a persons own personal belief as liberal poison. My beliefs come from me not liberals, what I said has nothing to do with liberal thought. So next time you use one of MY beliefs don't label it as liberal poison. Label it as one of E_E's lies if you want. I would not get mad at that because it is the truth as you see it. Let me ask you a question does the 10 Fundamental Rights of a Human Being, as laid out by the UN liberal poison as well?
1minionsopinion said
“Walk a mile in a man’s shoes and you will know that man.”
Literally taken, all you’ll find out is if the man has good shoes.
Hypocrisy is an interesting thing. Who is fit to judge? I’m going to do a post on my own site about this at some point because I recently watched a movie that illustrated very neatly how assumptions get in the way of seeing the truth as it is. I may even wind up giving the film the same treatment my Friday/Saturday movie fest last month. It’s a show screaming for screen caps and no, I’m not going to tell you what it is. Anticipation whets the appetite…
1minionsopinion said
Something else comes to mind – in order to follow the bible, a book written so long ago in a country with a culture we can’t really fully understand without experiencing it for ourselves (and we can’t), we have to do a lot of assuming. Everyone argues about the meaning of this verse, that verse, this book, that letter. We can’t go back in time and see these people as they lived and why the rules they set down were necessary at the time.
Are some of them still applicable? Yes, and that causes even more confusion because how does it get decided which rules to follow, except by consensus and copycatting?
Do people really choose their behaviours based on this book, or do they do and think based on what everyone they know does and thinks? Everyone else might be saying they’re getting it from the bible, but they’re also living and breathing the ideologies of everyone they’ve ever known, and all those people claimed to have the bible behind them, too. And back and back it goes.
They have the bible, they read the bible, they even say they believe the bible, but how many of them can truly say they’d want to live it to the letter and still be honest with themselves?
princessxxx said
thanks e_e.
kay, i think you are right,
god took keller’s tv program away cause he was a bad,bad boy.
but i also think you are wrong,
i’m more righteous than keller.
and i’m not righteous at all.
Enkill_Eridos said
1minion that is a valid point. Like I have said before the bible is more of a compass. Words that mean something today,more than likely meant something different 2250-2500 years ago. Just like words back in the 17th century both in Greek and English, meant something much different than it means today. I mean the Jews do not sacrifice their livestock to God anymore, because their society has changed over the thousands of years. Their language has changed so much that there is debate on how you pronounce the word YHVH, since it was only allowed to be spoken by Rabbi’s. The words that say LORD, and Holy Spirit meant something different way back in the 7th-14th century than it does now. I mean 90% of the bible stories are parables. 8% laws those where the verses that were written very clear, Thou shalt not kill etc. and the other 2% was genealogy of the Hebrew peoples. One of the reasons why people interpret it differently is because, each person has a unique perspective and view of the world, and the universe. No two people will have the exact opinion unless there is a substantial amount of brainwashing. Which does happen in all organized religions, including Christianity. I mean what I am describing is the minority of Christians. Most churches are not liberal, are not conservative and if you say No thank you, they usually say “Okay, if you are ever curious go to x church at x address. Check us out.” And they walk away. Now there are the minority of Christians, the fundamentalists which does not mean they strap bombs to themselves and kill people, everyone has met this kind at one point in his or her life. The kind that does not take No for an answer. The kind that gets hostile, and starts adopting a body language meant to inspire fear, when you say You’re not interested in listening or you’re too busy. These people rarely get violent physically, but they do get aggressive and hostile in a much different way. First the body language, then the raised voice (I have heard a slight pitch raise to a very loud pitch raise. I have even heard an octive raise.) talking about dogmas, and different things about how you’re life can only get better if you goto x church, and become saved and baptized the whole 9 yards. Mind you this is not every church, and not every christian. These are the very select few, the minority. In this country they are labeled as (even by some conservative Christians) as bible thumpers. In a nutshell that is a Christian Fundamentalist. A minority in that group take things to the extreme. They are usually involved, with the harassing, physical violence, etc. Of people who are obviously not christian. Again not every Christian is like that, this is only the very small minority. Sometimes they get on the news, but most of the time no one says anything to the authorities about this type of behavior. This is not what being a Christian means, and this is not what all Christians are. Just like not all Conservative Christians, are Republicans. Most of the Christian Outreach groups, besides the minority, do things like carnivals, community dinners, community breakfasts, and hold events that bring a town, city, etc. together They find inventive ways to bring the subject up, make a person comfortable but at the same time is not all in your face about it. And then there are some Churches that teach their Outreach Program, that people need to be brought out of their comfort zone, that the message of salvation is uncomfortable.
I believe the saying “You Catch more flies, with Honey than with Vinegar” applies nicely. The fact is most people that are converted by fundamentalists, are confused spiritually and scared. Actually cults have similar ways of recruiting and bringing you into the fold.
I am not actually labeling any brand of Christianity, and the denominations of Christianity that first pop into your headmay or may not adopt those practices. The fundamental practices that I have described exist in all organized religions. But in Christianity they do not belong to any certain denomination, I have seen fundamentalist outreach in a variety of Christian Churches. Not just the Churches whose outreach, is mainly going door to door.
And then there are the assholes that like to see if a person is a fundamentalist or not. The kind of person who knows the reaction, of telling his or her point of view will cause. These assholes will just argue because they are bored, and will argue until it no longer entertains them. These assholes know better, but do it anyway.
1minionsopinion said
Thanks E_E. That was well put. I’ll say also that I don’t mind debating ideas on the internet about beliefs and what’s useful in the bible or whatever. I don’t do it in real life.
I could, I suppose, but since I’m surrounded by people who have a decent set of morals, don’t act in hypocritical fashions, don’t seem to be racist or bigots or against anyone or particular group in any obvious/vocal kind of way, I don’t see the point. It doesn’t matter if they know I’m an atheist or not. We’re on the page as far as humanity goes. I know some of them go to church, I don’t know about others. I don’t ask because it’s none of my business how they might believe or worship and I don’t want to risk losing good friends over a faith-based confrontation.
Maybe they’d all be cool knowing I’m atheist, and it wouldn’t make a difference in how I’m treated. I don’t know. Canada doesn’t seem to get as bent out of shape over that as the States appear to, but still. Why make it an issue if it doesn’t have to be?
dorian said
it’s a wise thing avoiding discussing religion or politics amongst friends and family or anyone for the most part because those subjects are usually linked to emotion and that’s when things stop being rational…it’s a personal thing anyway, why not keep it private? anyway, i’m still thinking of the portable prayer booths i read about in 1minionsopinion’s quotable kirk cameron post. check it out!
princessxxx said
BIL KELLER SAYS -”These people are not about love or peace or unity. They are about one thing. Converting the world to their false religion and those who get in their way or who refuse to follow their lies will be silenced and killed. The word “Islam” literally means “submission.” Maybe you don’t understand what it means when their “holy book” says “death to all infidels.” An “infidel” by their definition is anyone who has not converted to their false beliefs. This is their book. These are their teachings. THIS IS WHAT ALL MUSLIMS BELIEVE!”
ST. PAUL OF THE NEW TESTAMENT SAYS – 2 CHRONICLES 15:13 “13That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.”
SOUNDS LIKE THE SAME THING TO ME. ONE COULD ARGUE THAT CHRISTIANS WANT TO CONVERT EVERYONE OR PUT THEM TO DEATH.
Enkill_Eridos said
It was for a time that Christians did put to death those that did not convert. The Crusades, The Inquisitions, Friday the 13th, The Witchcraft Acts in Great Britain, Salem Witch Trials, and the historical lists of Christianity endorsed torture, hangings, burning at the steak, can go on until around the 1950’s. So from around 1000 AD (Maybe earlier) to 1951, more died because they did not follow Christianity than Hitler killed. Don’t say this was judgement on the past because this policy lasted from around the middle 10th century (maybe earlier) to the mid 20th century. Pretty close to a thousand years. Maybe that was what Revelations was talking about, when it spoke of the 1000 year reign of Satan? It does fit the prophecy (Which was dated to around 500 years before Christianity went on its near 1000 year killing spree.) This is not counting the conflicts and wars that was said to be “just in the eyes of the Lord.” So I would say that is an even 1000 years.
kay~ms said
P, where did Paul say this???
ST. PAUL OF THE NEW TESTAMENT SAYS – 2 CHRONICLES 15:13 “13That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.”
Enkill_Eridos said
2 Chronicles is not in the new testament. 2 Chronicles is in the Old Testament.
kay~ms said
Exactly, so how is it attributed to Paul?
I have a comment in moderation on the other post.
kay~ms said
It’s pretty bad when you are caught making things up and twisting things in order to support your points… P & 1minion.
kay~ms said
I found this interesting comment / information on the web..
To BekindtoAnimals22: What do I expect you, us, to do about it? This a long term world problem that won’t go away, even if we elect Hillary or Obama. Let me answer that in a moment.
It has been shown that as many as 1% of all Muslims believe in radical Islam and its destiny to rule the planet under Sharia law, and who are willing to commit violent acts and self-sacrifice toward this end. That’s 12 million extremely dangerous radicals. It’s also been shown that fully 10% of all Muslims, while maybe not willing to commit violence or self-martyrdom, would fully prefer to live under Sharia law, under the Supreme Caliphate, and would give financial and other assistance to the radical 1%. That’s 120 million sympathizers. Finally, of the other 89% we’ve seen at least 90% of those fail even to condemn the acts of that 11% or speak out against them. That’s a Muslim inertia mass of 961 million standing in the way of a solution. ***Continued next paragraph***
2 years ago
This war of civilizations is happening whether or not we all vote Democrat or Republican.
But what I do know is human nature and history, and appeasers and pacifism ALWAYS leads to more death…not less. The US has already tried the soft aproach (under Clinton) and all that got us was more attacks of successively greater severity. One can never win a war to one’s benefit by surrendering or not fighting back. The present Democrats in Congress and those Dems running for president do not understand this fact. Liberals will make and sell the rope that the Muslim hangmen will use against them.
***Continued***
2 years ago
What to do? We need first to defeat the ideology of pacifism and appeasement and of political correctness in this country which causes us to install foot baths in public places, and toilets to be ripped out and re-mounted so as not to face east so as not to “offend” any Muslims. It is seen by them as national weekness and only encourages them psychologically.
We need to elect political leaders who can prosecute this war (and I’m not talking about just Iraq) decisively and not sensitively, as Kerry promised. Can you imagine had Sherman told Grant he was planning to wage his battles in the South with sensitivity? The South would be a separate nation today had Sherman conducted himself as a modern-day Democrat would.
Finally, we need to toughen up. Our strength and will power will be tested over the coming decades. Will we win? I wouldn’t bet the bank on it. We are greatly outnumbered, and we don’t yet have the political will to fight as those 300 Spartans.
2 years ago
To Simon B: My thoughts on Christian love and understanding: If that carries the day for the West, many Christians will see God before they’ve lived a long life, but not by the Rapture…but by the hand of the radical Muslim who doesn’t give a rat’s *ss about your love of, and understanding for, them. Even Sargent York, a Christian pacifist, came to learn that killing the Germans in WWI was an acceptable course of action for the greater good of mankind. These radicals need to be eliminated…not loved to death.
kay~ms said
“There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate. There is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism. At most there is a difference of degree but not of kind.” — Ibn Warraq, executive director of the Institute for the Secularization of Islamic Society
kay~ms said
Passages from the Koran…
Part 1:
http://nowscape.com/islam/koran_sura.htm#4.89
Part 2:
http://nowscape.com/islam/koran_sura2.htm
Enkill_Eridos said
There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. Those terms are indeed fabricated by both the liberal and conservative media. There are those that take thier holy book literally, and those that do not. Much like Christianity, Muslims believe that the word of Allah is supreme, and they are the only true religion. The views are very similar huh? It can be concluded that all Muslims are trying for the same goal as Christianity. For everyone in the world to believe in their religion.
This is how it was explained to me by a friend of mine, whom was Muslim someone I had to trust with my life so I learned a little about his beliefs. There are two kinds of muslims, the militant and peaceable. The difference between the militant and the peaceable Muslim is similar to that between the revolutionary and the democratic socialist: one is willing to use even violence to achieve the ultimate end, while the other contents him or herself with “working within the system” to realize the goal of Islamization and bringing the world into Dar es-Salaam.
princessxxx said
well, i mistook chronicles for corinthians, big deal, it “is” in the bible.
the so called word of god. i didn’t make it up, it’s in there.
regardless of my error, kay, how is it any different than what the koran says?
i mean give me a break, you’re the one that said seth killed abel.
princessxxx said
so i made a mistake, shoot me.
1minionsopinion said
I didn’t attribute Corinthians to Paul. I asked if it was Paul’s because I wasn’t sure. If you reread my comment, you’ll see I was asking, not stating as fact.
Whoever it was that gets credit for writing it, and whoever gets credit for including it in the set in the first place, whoever. The quote stands as is – put to death those who don’t believe. I think a lot of faiths have had similar rules regarding “convert or die” mentalities, haven’t they? I’m not overly familiar with the histories of conquest, no matter who was doing the conquering.
I did read an interesting thing about the Romans once, though, that back when they did have their pantheon, because their empire was so huge, as soon as a country fell under their rule, the local belief systems were usually incorporated rather than squashed. I don’t remember where I saw that now, though. Poor little let-me-down brain matter…
1minionsopinion said
Oh whoops.. Shoot me too for not reading everything. Big surprise if I’m getting books mixed up. I’m all confused now.
dorian said
i leave for a few hours and come back to see two of our authors possibly shot down by a homicidal maniacal kitty with an oozie. damn. it’s tough finding good blog authors nowadays.
Rick Fisk said
Everyone’s kind of missing the point aren’t they?
“Thou shalt not bear false witness”.
If Hasan was on Obama’s transition team, then where’s the documentation for this?
dorian said
hi, rick! thanks for dropping by.
we’d like to ask bill keller for those documentations ourselves.
maybe he’ll answer you. pastor bill keller can be reached http://liveprayer.com/
Enkill_Eridos said
Oh, that was something that was fabricated to push Bill’s personal agenda. Also I will stand by my Christianity has had close to 1000 years of violent history. Christianity is just as violent, and in a way they have the same goals as Islam. Christianity does not strap bombs to themselves, they learned to change the worlds mind by manipulating the system. The Muslim Nations want the West out of the Middle East. (When they say West they mean America.) Some believe the best way to do that is to destroy everything else. Others take the more flies with honey approach. (Similar to how Christian Outreaches work. Except Christian Outreaches do not USUALLY blow themselves up to prove a point.)
Princessxxx said
hey dorian, i emailed keller yesterday and told him that the claim about hasan being on obamas homeland security council was false.
so far no word, which is strange, he usually gets right back to me.
oh well, i’ll let you know what he says if he does reply.
(probably should have mentioned his hair)
e_e is correct, a big long history of violence.
dorian said
so pastor billy makes things up to prove a point?? hmm.
violence: the christian crusade, inquisition and conquering armies have killed multitudes in europe, the americas, the caribbean and asia. so if anyone is talking about muslims killing for their allah, well, the christians did that for their god as well. religious fanaticism is dangerous, period.
Enkill_Eridos said
it is theological debate break time! Listen to this cool Hardstyle song, music really does soothe the soul.