Caveman, wife, and BABY
Posted by lawman2 on February 6, 2009
MY WIFE IS PREGNANT!!!
When my beautiful wife told me she was 3 days late, I ran out and bought 10 pregnancy test (yes, really 10), she stopped using them after the 5th one said positive!!! She said she was tired of me shoving full glasses of water in front of her…hehehe
I am so proud I can’t hardly contain myself!!! We will be going to our first doctors visit next week! My wife asked me not to tell anyone until after our official visit…well I just couldn’t help myself! I begged her not to make me wait, I am an old caveman and have waited my whole adult life for this! She felt sorry for me and gave in!
I called my mom and dad! My parents are so damn happy! My mom cried happy tears on the phone with me! My wife talked to her dad shortly after my call. Her mother passed away a few short weeks ago, and she regrets her mother isn’t here to share in our good news. I completely understand that. My wife is already feeling a little scared, wondering how everything will go. She is 37, and this is our first child!
I hope this post reads well as I am so excited I can’t hardly type!
Soon we will have a little cavebaby in our crib! My brother asked me if I was hoping for a boy or a girl. I told him I don’t give a damn what sex our child is, I am just relieved and happy we are having one! I do hope boy or girl, our child takes after my wife in personality. and temperance! My dad has been waiting patiently for me to have a son, just like me…he says paybacks are hell! lol
P.S. I bought my wife a bag of Oreos… already have a nick name picked out, my little Oreo!
A Different Kind of Blog 
dorian9 said
CONGRATULATIONS!! i think this calls for ice cream. you can have some too, cavedaddy….
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Lawman2 said
why thank you dorian!damn girl if you were here i’d take us all out to celebrate!!!
i’m a daddy to be!!!
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Lawman2 said
gotta go baby my baby!i think she needs to take off work,and get fat!!! I HAVE NEVER FELT SO MUCH JOY IN MY LIFE! FIRST I MARRY THE WOMAN I HAVE LOVED FOR SO MANY YEARS AND NOW SHE IS GOING TO GIVE ME A BABY!!!
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Lawman2 said
hell i want to call everyone i know!!!tell everyone in the whole entire world!
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tothewire said
lol Lawman2! I love you!
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Lawman2 said
of course you do!i am your caveman baby!
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Wyndee said
See how fast I work!!! LMBO!!!!
CONGRATS!!! I dont even know you and your wife but I’m so happy for you guys!! If your that stoked, you’ll for sure make great parents!!!
So, lets hope for twins!!!!
=)
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Lawman2 said
thank you wyndee!we knew as soon as we married that we wanted to start a family! https://tothewire.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/the-caveman-takes-a-wife/
i want everyone to know!!!
yeah i am the caveman!and my wife is pregnant!and we are going to have a little caveperson running around our crib soon!!!
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Lawman2 said
twins!!!YES!!!wouldn’t that be just perfect!
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Lawman2 said
i just read that post again!
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SewDucky said
Congrats! I’m glad for you guys!
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bettyslocombe said
Good on you both: it’s the best thing in the world, and he is really quite endearing isn’t he, tothewire? Will you be getting a word in edgewise about the whole process do you think?
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Amitabh said
Congratulations! Lawman2. Tell Oreo that he is already famous!
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RJ said
Wow, Lawman, I can actually feel you bouncing off the screen somehow–and I’m dead serious..truly, I can feel it! Great for you both! You all didn’t waste any time. 37 is a great time to have a first baby. Now, you all are ruining my abortion post that I’ve been trying to type. Darn!
Oreo? Oh, no!
FYI–Get a midwife.
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justice4mothers said
Don’t forget to talk to the baby often…play music for it. My first child, my daughter really boogied down when I was at a Bay City Rollers concert…I was six months pregnant at the time (yeah, it was a longggggg time ago). My son kicked the nurse when she tried to get a heartbeat at 13 weeks along, and in the hospital, he was already a little terror (I actually could feel his little leg kicking her when she tried to press down with the device. It is really awesome…it is wonderful tothewire…enjoy the pregnancy…and don’t forget to talk to the belly too lawman…the baby will recognize you better then. Really.
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kay~ms said
Wow!… congratulations!! You guys sure didn’t waste any time! I’m sooo excited for you both!! Any ideas for names yet?
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dorian9 said
can we all be virtual godmothers and godfathers?
hey lawman i’m anticipating some good reads on the caveman diaries.
some of us have followed your story from day one! your blog family, the whole lot of us.
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okathleen said
Aw,I can feel a little baby blog coming on…
http://www.okathleen.wordpress.com
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Lawman2 said
my wife is being pretty quiet…lol
thank you all for the congratulations on our baby on board post here!i tell you i am so damn excited!i couldn’t hardly sleep last night!first doctor visit is going to be today!i called and told the doctor himself(he is a friend of mine)asked him not to keep me waiting until next week!!!
of course my wife laughed and told me i needed to come down from cloud nine!no way!
wife said no baby blog here 😦 but i will post everytime something new happens!
we are having dinner with her dad tonight,so won’t post again until tomorrow.
dorian YES you all can be virtual god parents! by the way i didn’t know we really will have to decide on god parents through the church.hmmm interesting.i didn’t know that was a must in the catholic church.
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dorian9 said
yes, catholics take the godparent issue seriously. they will be there holding the baby as he/she is being baptized.
i have three godchildren myself. makes christmas expensive!
us virtual godparents are inter-faith and bipartisan! that’s a good thing…
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obama the antichrist said
SO HAPPY FOR YOU TWO!!!!!!!!! Another lil caveperson is a great thing!!!!! raise him good and RIGHT lawman and ttw like im sure you will 🙂
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arkangel3 said
Congrats, guys! I have been a dad for almost 12 years…it’s the most unique and amazing thing. Just hold on to the handrails, because you guys are in for one heck of a ride! Best wishes to both of you.
Peace,
Ark
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Lawman2 said
hey there ark!good to read you here again!
thank you!we are pretty damn excited!
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Lawman2 said
thank you ota!think tothwires views on abortion maybe a bit different now…
the doc even did an ultra sound yesterday,just because he is a good flyin’ buddie of mine!!!pretty amazing to see our little cavedweller so early on! (by the way you can see the heart beat!) actually that is just about all you can see very clearly.
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dvp said
lawman, hear me now: it is often at this dear time, that staunch supporters of forced-birth do indeed become pro-choice…let me continue, knowing that you won’t accept what I am saying unless you have an open mind…
…a mother, that feels the joy of pregnancy, and proceeds forward, planning, planning, getting excited, planning, dreaming, sharing,and planning…until baby comes, comes to the realization that a joy as powerful as this, should only be as such, if the mother is a willing participant, because she must nurture her body, she must put up with change, she must hope for the best, sometimes preparing for the worse…and knowing this, it is at this point that she decides that this process should be reserved for those who want it.
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rj said
An OB, huh? I told you to get a midwife. Hope he or she is not contaminated by the medical industry! Else, mark my words…C-Section will be in your forecast. Make a birth plan and use your intuition.
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tunabdulrazak said
Lets call him Amabo!
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kay~ms said
Dvp…. what you just said is a bunch of crap… you are COMPLETELY overlooking the woman’s feelings AFTER the fact! What will she feel after she has had her child murdered?? She will feel EVEN WORSE than she could ever feel by being inconvenienced. Stop the BS!!!
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dvp said
Kayms, I really wish you would STFU because I wasn’t talking to you. It was a consideration for the less primitive brains, only. Your response=unconsidered and irrelevant. You don’t know WTF I am overlooking because you don’t know a DAMN thing about me. You can’t propose to know what anyone feels unless you can view from all sides. And obviously, you can’t. DO NOT SPEAK TO ME!!!
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kay~ms said
EXACTLY!…View from ALL sides! Your comment is primitive and IGNORANT… stop pushing your pro choice self serving view… this issue is about more than your f**** agenda…
And I’m not commenting on you… I’m commenting on your comment… which again, completely ignores the SUFFERING that a woman will feel AFTERWARDS!
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douglaskev said
!!!!!!!!!!!
congrats guys! I hope everything goes well ^_^
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dvp said
I thought I said STFU and don’t talk to me– you either have a reading or listening problem. I don’t have a damn agenda and you’d know that if you’d get that stick out of your ass and actually read what I am writing with agenda. How the fuck do you propose to know about the suffering of another woman? Have you had a damn abortion? Have you been forced to give birth or be pregnant? Just another ignorant, Christofacist comment from someone who pretends to be looking from different vantage points. All you’ve got is assumptions…and you seem nearly orgasmic to jump on me when I wasn’t talking to you. Go masturbate on someone else…The blogger here may tolerate your dumb shit religious fanaticism here but in the intellectual world, you won’t fly.
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douglaskev said
i hope you make a cavebaby page on this site
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Obama the antichrist said
Dvp…why did you come on here to ruin this momentous occasion for lawman and ttw. she is having the baby so your abortion comment is irrelevant and plain dumb. there is a section for your baby murdering speech go there dont taint this page.
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kay~ms said
Your name is new to me but your words (and anger) seem awfully familiar… I’ll just leave that at that.. as to this issue… for starters.. I never mentioned religion… there actually are other reasons besides religion to be against abortion… I covered one of them… the woman’s mental health and some other reasons are: the rights of the unborn, the suffering of the unborn, the rights of the father who are not even considered in the least.
And sweetie… you’re on a blog… if you don’t want certain people ‘talking’ to you then try some other form of communication… we’re in the 21st century here… “don’t talk to me” doesn’t work here… don’t make ignorant comments about extremely important issues if you can’t handle people disagreeing with you.
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kay~ms said
And exactly how do you equate ‘intellectual’ with killing an innocent child??? It’s more like STUPID… because you pro choicers can’t seem to come up with a better solution than to just ‘kill’ the problem away… pretty pathetic… pretty soon, if liberals have there way, we’ll be killing the elderly because it will be too inconvenient ( and expensive) to take care of them. KILLING IS NOT THE ANSWER!!!!
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kay~ms said
You can’t get more ‘primitive’ than using death as a solution. Intellectual?? Give me a break!! You really need to start thinking outside of your little box…
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obama the antichrist said
ahahahahaha wow dvp i cant believe you actually put “STFU” and “dont talk to me” a bit childish dontcha think? ahahahahahha well saying those things to someone who is A. smarter than you and B. She can take you down sunshine.
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obama the antichrist said
amabo=i will love (in latin). Caveman and ttw i am soooo excited for you!!!!!!!! you guys will make great parents!
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Lawman2 said
amabo oreo! hehehe
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Lawman2 said
yep we will have to have tales from the crib…lol
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arkangel3 said
I’m an occasional visitor here (and have linked to posts here from my blog as Caveman has done for mine as well). Just MHO, but this is not the greatest way to have a debate (let alone an intelligent one) on a controversial subject. The man was sharing his good news…that’s all. He was also sharing his opinion on how this is making him feel. I can certainly relate, because when I became a father 12 years ago I had a bit of an awakening. I have been and always will be pro-choice, but I certainly can see the argument of the pro-life movement. I became PERSONALLY pro-life, but politically I am pro-choice only because I am a great believer in individual conscience and the right to have individuals determine their destiny, not a government. That said, it is clear that BOTH sides have extremists who refuse to allow intelligent discussion and make intelligent arguments without resorting to passionate abandon.
I have two girls, and I know I would do everything I could to persuade them to keep the child. I would offer them a roof over their head, food on the table, and I’d take care of the kid if they went to work. The final decision rests with them. I will not be unforgiving if they choose not to keep the child; because they are still MY children whom I love unconditionally. Both sides of the issue have merits to their arguments. In all cases, is IS a personal decision whether you are pro-life or pro-choice.
All this being said, once again…congratulations on the good news. It will be a rough few months at first. Make sure you BOTH take care of yourselves as well; despite what many people think, it takes two to be parents even before the child is born. Once you get that sonogram and see that precious progeny…you will be blown away. And it just gets better from there. Sure there will be rough patches; but you’ll get through them. Nothing is stronger than the bond that created this life in the first place.
Good luck…and if you ever want to aask a few questions from a stay-at-home dad (and aspiring writer), you can always reach me through my blog. CONGRATS AGAIN!!
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obama the antichrist said
hey arkangel….it boggles me that ppl are like its their choice! well ted bundy CHOSE to kill, so why was he sentenced to death, why didnt prochoice ppl protect him?
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kay~ms said
Pro Choice people can’t seem to comprehend that “their choice” involves ANOTHER human being… a human being with a beating heart and the ability to feel pain! There are laws against hurting others!! This should not be happening!! How can a woman be allowed to kill her baby at 23 weeks? This child WAS alive! I don’t understand it!! This is NOT a religious issue!!!
At 2 weeks or 3 or whatever, before a heartbeat… then it can be considered a religious issue , or a government control issue, but certainly not at 23 weeks!!!!
Pro choice people are CHOOSING to be ignorant of this fact… that babies ARE BEING MURDERED…because of selfish pro choice narcasistic fanatics who’s number one priority is winning no matter what the cost.. as long as it doesn’t cost them. They are perfectly willing to ‘sacrifice’ these late term babies in order to preserve their precious “right” to choose… wow… how noble of them…
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kay~ms said
Well?? No response from the Pro Choice people out there? I would really like to get an answer to this question that has been out there for quit awhile now…. I understand that the government should not control our personal lives… and with religious issues aside, abortion in the EARLY stages is more widely accepted and understandable…BUT there ARE late term abortions being performed by the thousands on a daily basis… and supporting abortion ‘rights’ IS supporting these murders ON A DAILY BASIS… I’m STILL WAITING for Pro Choice people to justify this!!! How can you defend abortion rights when this is going on as a result??? HOW, in any way, can killing these babies be ok??? What do you tell yourselves about this??? Please enlighten me….
There is a saying… it’s actually the title of a movie… “Do the RIGHT thing”. Is the right thing always easier?… NO… but that is NOT then justification for doing the WRONG thing. THE EASIEST CHOICE IS NOT ALWAYS THE RIGHT CHOICE!! Just ask any women who has made the choice to abort her late term child! Ask ANY of them!!
The right thing here, from a non religious point of view, is to only allow and support abortions and abortion laws that are not KILLING a formed human being with a beating heart that feels pain. Period!
Anyone who doesn’t draw this line IS PRIMITIVE in mind and thoroughly barbaric. Period!
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art predator said
Congratulations on the coming baby! I hope all goes well during the first 12 weeks especially…miscarriage is so very common which is why the common advice to wait until 14 weeks or so to share the good news.
Kay, I am “pro-choice” but do not find this an appropriate forum for this debate and have no particular interest in engaging with you on this topic elsewhere. This issue is much more complex than should be undertaken in a comment box under a post where someone has shared such joyous news.
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art predator said
Sorry Kay, I see now you are a site administrator and author. You know much more about what’s appropriate debate on your site and where. I apologize for overstepping my bounds.
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kay~ms said
Art Predator… I don’t feel that you did anything to apologize for but thanks anyway.. forums are for stating our thoughts, making our points, and you’ve made a good one… this isn’t the right page for this topic but it was started by someone else here..”DVP”.. and for an issue as important and serious as abortion.. I’m not going to let it go…
Your are the second person recently to state that this topic can’t / shouldn’t be discussed on a blog ( or comment box ) and I don’t get that at all… I can’t think of a better forum to discuss an issue that MOST DEFINITELY should be discussed… and you are also not the first Pro Choice person to state that you have no desire to debate this issue at all with me ( a Pro Life person ). When someone makes that choice, I can only conclude that you are unable to defend you view… or you feel that you can’t ‘win’ the debate. I have a saying that I’ve mentioned quite a lot lately… if you can’t defend your view then maybe it’s time to RECONSIDER your view… I was really hoping that you might have had an answer to the question I proposed… but once again… nothing… still waiting Pro Choice people… how can you justify your support for legalized abortion when thousands of babies daily are being murdered under this legalization?…. how does that not make you barbaric and inhumane? You can answer here on the debate page… https://tothewire.wordpress.com/like-to-debate/
WILL WAIT FOR YOUR REPLIES!! WON’T HOLD MY BREATH!!
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dvp said
Get your shit strait.
I didn’t “start” anything. But this person decided to add herself to what I was telling to the man having the baby. If people can read, you will see how this came about.
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dorian9 said
pro-choicers and pro-lifers christians atheists et al let’s proceed to the debate page if debate you must the no win and emotional abortion topic. everybody ends up shouting.
let the baby sleep.
https://tothewire.wordpress.com/like-to-debate/
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kay~ms said
DVP…You’re still trying to pass off your comment as ‘innocent’?… sorry but it had AGENDA written all over it… and I don’t care who it was addressed to… if it’s an ignorant comment it’s going to get responses from others… again, this is a blog…
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dorian9 said
oh. i may be liberal and pro-choice but i’ll still have kay as a virtual godmother if ever i decide to have another baby. you are strong and steadfast in your beliefs. i respect that.
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Lawman2 said
lol my oh my! well we are sure happy about the news!tothewire is still uneasy and worried,but all i see is blue sky!
thanks art predator and dvp for the congratulations!hey if you want to entertain the ol’ caveman you know how much i love a great debate…hehehe i’m lovin it!
just let me get some popcorn!
https://tothewire.wordpress.com/like-to-debate/
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kay~ms said
Thank you liberal and pro choice Dorian… your bipartisanship is very admirable… but I have to say that while my views are strong and steadfast… I do try to have an open mind… I really do! So that is why I’m asking for Pro choice people to help me to understand their support of legalized abortion when late term babies ARE being killed? I’m just asking!?!? Again, here we go… it’s more like begging… PLease… help me to understand your view / stance… how do you reconcile the two?
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Anonymous said
kay with me it’s the door that it will open when government makes laws that will compromise our rights and freedom. look what happened with prohibition. organized crime took over. our human rights would be compromised, it can’t happen here. in a communist or fascist country, yes. not everything can be reconciled, just gotta live your own life according to your own beliefs and hope for the best. for a pro-lifer how do you go against abortion but be okay with executing ted bundy or be okay with the iraq war? we just have to let our own conscience be our guide if you’re not okay with others aborting their babies, maybe just pray for their souls (the mother and the aborted baby’s) because people will do what they will. that’s how you can help those you don’t have the power to “save”, if you will..and i mean this in a good way, okay?
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Anonymous said
everything will be okay new mommy to be tothewire! you’ve got big daddy lawman and your family and of course the omnipresent pater noster Deo with ya..
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Anonymous said
darn it anonymous is me dorian not signing in to this other computer again…
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art predator said
Even if you are open minded about this, Kay, I don’t want to be baited into joining a debate about this issue. Possibly changing your mind isn’t worth my time. If you were in a situation where you were struggling to decide what to do, I would be happy to help you walk through the options that are safe for you and legally available in whatever country you are in.
And one question to consider: if abortion is outlawed, what do you think should be done to women who still get illegal abortions–should they live long enough.
Lawman, you may enjoy this debate, but for me, and for many women, it is not an academic one.
May that baby grow healthy and strong in your wife’s belly full term!
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tothewire said
I am still a pro choice moderate and will remain. I agree with Dorian and Art Predator this is not a debate I would enjoy having.
Lawman sucker punched me with the whole “is this a baby in your belly?” question. Well of course I said yes.
Thank you everyone for your kind words and congratulations! I do hope and pray for all to go well, I think Lawman always jumps the gun, and we should have waited a little bit anyway to share the news! But the cat is out of the bag so to speak, and we are really excited!
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kay~ms said
Thank you Dorian for responding to my question honestly…
You said…kay with me it’s the door that it will open when government makes laws that will compromise our rights and freedom. look what happened with prohibition. organized crime took over. our human rights would be compromised, it can’t happen here.
I have to say that I do not see or understand your view though… with the idea being that that is your answer?.. as to why it is acceptable to do what we legally do to live babies. Your reasoning is valid BUT not when it comes to violating ANOTHER’S rights in order to preserve your own. Especially in the manner in which it is done. Why is this so hard for Liberals to understand… the rights of someone else besides themselves?? What about the rights and freedoms of the unborn child? Including the ones who could survive outside the mother’s womb? Your answer contradicts itself!! You are talking about rights but only for some… not all… that’s not right.. that’s not liberty and justice FOR ALL…
Saying that some things can’t be reconciled is a cop out. Saying that it might open the door to losses of other ‘freedoms’ is also a cop out. If we were talking about a traffic law or something these answers would be acceptable but we are not, we are talking about the life of ANOTHER human being who is completely defenseless.
You said.. for a pro-lifer how do you go against abortion but be okay with executing ted bundy or be okay with the iraq war?
I can’t believe I have to explain this again… how can you possibly think that an innocent baby and a serial killer are the same thing???
I am convinced that the Liberals here don’t even consider other’s views with an open mind… and this is a perfect example…. it can’t get more clear… a baby who has no ill will against anyone is not the same as a man who kills people for his own personal pleasure… you can’t see the differences here??? This is a PERFECT example of Liberal ignorance, stupidity and stubborness.
And a baby doesn’t get to make the decision to be conceived….people do CHOOSE to participate in war… again… NOT THE SAME THING…
You said…we just have to let our own conscience be our guide if you’re not okay with others aborting their babies, maybe just pray for their souls (the mother and the aborted baby’s) because people will do what they will.
So even though I see what is going on… babies being murdered by the thousands, every day… I should do nothing about it? I shouldn’t speak out against it? Do you feel the same about other atrocities in our society? do you just pray about it but take no action? What if everyone did that with every social problem? That’s not a realistic approach. God wants us to not just pray but also take action… God helps those who help themselves…
Liberals don’t do the right thing… they do the easy thing…
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kay~ms said
Art P. said…if abortion is outlawed, what do you think should be done to women who still get illegal abortions–should they live long enough.
In the late stages of a pregnancy, the woman and the person who performed the abortion should be charged with murder.
In the early stages…a lesser charge…
If the woman doesn’t live thru her attempted abortion… it is a result of a choice that she made… if I’m supposed to think that abortion should be legal because these woman are unable to make a right decision… sorry… no.. I don’t think that. I do think that we should make other options available in abundance and educate as much as possible.
You said…Lawman, you may enjoy this debate, but for me, and for many women, it is not an academic one.
Just curious… did you read this article? https://tothewire.wordpress.com/2009/02/07/doctor-loses-license-in-live-birth-abortion-case/
If you did… do you still think this subject is not worth discussing?
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Lawman2 said
that post just makes them uncomfortable kay.
my wife keeps telling me not to comment on this but you by now know i don’t obey too well!
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art predator said
Yes, I did read the article and I commented too.
I have some more questions for you:
If a woman has several children already, and may not have the support of a partner, then what? still she should go to jail? what will happen to the children? are you going to take them in?
What if the fetus has downs? or has a fatal flaw? was the result of rape or incest?
what if the mother is a child herself?
What if “protection” failed? Condoms and other forms of birth control, even if used absolutely correctly, do not always “protect”.
Do you think the only people who should have sex are people ready to carry to term a child?
What about men who refuse to use condoms or allow the woman to use protection? Shouldn’t they be the ones in jail?
What about fathers who refuse to take responsibility and provide for their children? There is a HUGE population of men out there now who shirk this duty.
What about all the women who don’t have access to protection?
What about child care and other services to take care of and feed and educate these children when they are born? Who will pay for these children when current services are sadly lacking? If abortion is outlawed, will these services be increased to assist women to take care of the children produced by unwanted pregnancies?
In what ways do you see the government/social services stepping up to the plate?
Because I don’t. I see a cycle of poverty and pain. Women and children make up the majority of those living in poverty, starving, going hungry, inadequately clothed, housed, shod.
How much more are YOU willing to pay each year? How much more is the righteous right willing to pay in taxes to support, house, feed, clothe, and educate these children, their mothers, these families?
just a few questions
the big one is: WHY DO WOMEN FEEL THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN ABORTION AND WHAT CAN WE DO TO SUPPORT THESE WOMEN SO THAT
a) they are not stuck in this position in the first place (ie, they have access to sufficient health services, health care, ie universal health care, they can get their tubes tied, or get whatever form of conception control they need or want and the education necessary to decide
b) should they get pregnant, women feel they CAN SUPPORT and TAKE CARE of, educate, house, feed a child
When these two issues are addressed, you will see the need for abortion sink.
The typical life of the working poor SUCKS. The typical life of a single mom SUCKS. The US does not take care of its poor, its women, its children. The US takes care of big business and the wealthy; the rich take care of the rich.
The subject that doesn’t get discussed is WHY women feel they have to get an abortion.
go for it
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Lawman2 said
i went and popped popcorn!…tothewire went to bed 😦
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Arkangel_3 said
I’m just stunned at the debate from one remark, one simple remark a man made about how he is feeling on learning of how he is going to be a father.
Turning it into a political platform is just not considerate, in my honest opinion. Furthermore, hard line approaches on either side of the argument will not score any points or get your philosophy across, although in that last post, Art sure as hell made his case. I agree with everything he outlined.
That being said and the genie already let out of the bottle, please explain this one to me: why is it insurance companies refuse to pay for birth control, but they will be more than happy to perform abortions or subsidize pregnancies? Think about it. Support of family planning AND abstinence (NOT one OR the other but BOTH in tandem) will certainly reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. If people want to save lives they must be consistent across the board: feed and clothe and shelter the poor, they are human too. They are living beings. Be against the death penalty. You cannot pick and choose scripture to suit your own purpose. If you are a Christian and follow the New Testament, ALL life is sacred…and you cannot pick and choose which is and which is not. If that is your belief system, then it must be consistent.
I am a Deist. I believe in Reason and Enlightenment and the inherent sentience of the Universe. I believe in freedom of choice and action; and with that must come responsibility for those choices. As I have said before, I am personally for the sanctity of all human life. The final decision on what a woman can and cannot do concerning a pregnancy is a personal matter and NOT a matter for Government. Reason and Enlightenment will guide an individual’s choice…one that they will have to live with.
I will say this: late term abortion (last trimester) is murder in my opinion, unless the mother’s life is in danger. That is where I believe a law should be involved.
You cannot force reason on an individual, it must come from within and that must evolve through education.
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Lawman2 said
hey there ark! man leave me a link to your blog! you know we are a bunch of blog junkies here!
damn i promised tothewire i would only read the comments…and not “engage” lol
ark i have some popcorn here, i’ll share with you man! art and kay are dukin it out!
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Arkangel_3 said
Here ya go Lawman…it’s called “Intersections In Real Time”. I usually post 5-7 times a week: http://arkangel3.wordpress.com/
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Wyndee said
HI Lawman and Tothewire!!
I’m so stoked for you guys!!
Dont worry about telling so early. its a blessing. soak it up. it will all be fine! =)
Man, I’m not sure how I got so sucked in to debating. I actually dont really like it. =) lol
But I guess when a matter is in your heart you cant help it right? =)
I’m not sure what state you all live in, but in my state, there is MORE help for women who are alone then for families who just plain got side swiped with a crappy circumstance.
For example, my husband has 2 business partners. when we dont get paid.. we just simply dont get paid. well we went a few paydays… without paydays.. lol. one couple tried, as they are married and she was pregnant, to get on some assistance. it was literally impossible for them. they had to claim ALL the money coming in, even tho the small business supports 3 families.
Yet, at my office (dental clinic) we see TONS of ppl on assistance, but they have nicer cell phones than me, asking about orthodontics, rims on their car… and so on. So- what the heck
Abortion is not popular because people are in need so bad that they dont see a way out… because -IF- there was no other way, they would FIND a way. We dont value the life of the unborn. and its based on opinion. really. one vs. the other.
Society promotes sex. It actually tells us that its the highest form of human experience. (not true btw) Like, if sex was frosting, we are telling people…
eat as much frosting as you can… eat it in the car, eat it with friends, eat it however you want… with whoever you want… as many times and as often as you can… while jumping… while in a car, or on a train, or in the rain.. (k i did steel that from Dr. Suess)
Come on.. lets face it. its destroying us. Without committment, it destroys us!!!
Women were created to be loved, nurtured and protected. We dont like to admit that urge in us. I know cause I was there. =)
but its fact! We love to be loved. =) In a committed relationship we flourish. And children are a blessing. No longer a burden for us to bear alone.
So we have to unmask the lie. the lie that says, sex whenever, with whoever is so great. thats so much crap. If we have been there we know it only causes pain. and lets face it, there are FEW and far between that have not been there. but the people i know who have waited, and then married.. man. wow. they dont have pain, and baggage they brought with them into their relationship that they had to ‘work thru’ in counseling. Like my husband and i had so much past hurts. he always thought i was going to break up with him, and i always thought he was going to cheat on me. ha. corse… we did get married at 18 and 21. =) that was 10 years ago. =) yay!
my point is, we know somethings not right… we know the standars that are set are not realistic. like.. be a supermodel like the one on OUR magazine, but dont tell the readers she was edited in photoshop.. her butts actually NORMAL. ha. fatty! j/k =)
this is long. tee hee… guess ill stop here. hope you get my point.
=)
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Lawman2 said
thanks ark! http://arkangel3.wordpress.com/2009/02/07/no-more-mister-nice-guy/
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kay~ms said
Art Predator…these are all good questions….valid, serious concerns BUT STILL not good enough to make the argument for killing innocent life. Do you know of any case where a person committed pre meditated murder but got off because of a list of excuses and arguments as to why they did it? There are no excuses or arguments… but for some reason the child who is alive and feels pain can be murdered for the right reasons? That’s insane… What you are insinuating with these questions is that killing is a solution to problems. I think what you are saying is that, on this issue, it’s the easiest solution, therefore ok, which is even worse… many of these same points could be made for the elderly… quality and cost of life… who will take care of them?…it’s easier to just euthanize them.. right? Death is not the answer… but in the case of abortion, the victims can’t defend themselves and you combine that with a selfish, narcisistic and spoiled society that doesn’t want the inconvenience and that’s why we get away with killing live human beings. It’s unthinkable, yet it’s happening. Many many years from now, we will be looked upon as barbarians, just as we are shocked when looking back at societies in history who did horrible things that were acceptable to them in their day.
If Liberals would focus and use their time to work on programs and aid for mothers / parents instead of fighting for this ‘right’ that isn’t even a true right then a lot of these problems would be alleviated / eased.
Again, your arguments are valid but don’t even come close to justifying the legalization of killing babies and in a way that wouldn’t even consider being done to a serial killer.. cruel and unusual punishment is against the law… what a joke our society is…
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Lawman2 said
hey it’s wyndee!welcome “home”! hehehe
we are sure proud and excited!can’t wait to be a dad!
everyone gets sucked into one or two debates on this blog,we love it!
okay not everyone betty never does…we have to work on that! lol
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Wyndee said
LOL.
thanks dood!!
thats funny cause i was out of town. lol
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art predator said
Most if not all of the people I know who are active on this issue are also active in other progressive causes like health care reform, living wage, educational opportunities, planet preservation, etc.
Be even nicer if the “pro-life” people chose to put their energies toward a working wage and other progressive issues rather than killing doctors
My house is near a former abortion clinic (see this post: http://artpredator.wordpress.com/2008/10/06/the-lot/)
All of us had to put up with the protesters harassment and lies. When I was pregnant, I was so filled with fury and rage toward them it was all I could do to NOT counter protest with my giant belly, my giant 3 week late belly filled with a life I was ready, willing, and able to take care of. I recognized they were not worth my time or my breath–that there were other issues where I could make a difference and I would never be able to change their minds. We would all just fill the world with more rage.
Kay, you may enjoy this type of interaction, but for me it is brutal. Awful. Vile. Bile is backed up in my throat. I don’t know you. I don’t want to hate you for making my world worse. But I’m done with this.
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Rj said
art predator–bowing out gracefully is respectable although the one who is getting high off of “debating” you will think of you as a coward. Like that matters. I have gotten sucked in in the past because of her insistence upon name-calling and generalized labeling..but I realized that it would never be a fair fight because her ignorance and the energies spent aren’t worth the effort that I usually spend toward educating and supporting the desperate.
If Liberals would focus and use their time to work on programs and aid for mothers / parents instead of fighting for this ‘right’
It is when things like this are said (blatant ignorance) that we should realize that there is nothing more to say.
All they have is assumptions…we operate in the real world.
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Rj said
Yet, at my office (dental clinic) we see TONS of ppl on assistance, but they have nicer cell phones than me, asking about orthodontics, rims on their car… and so on. So- what the heck
I take offense to this statement. That may be a superficial appearance at best. Who knows what is going on inside their houses.
Abortion is not popular because people are in need so bad that they dont see a way out… because -IF- there was no other way, they would FIND a way. We dont value the life of the unborn. and its based on opinion. really. one vs. the other.
The United State doesn’t value children, period (the issue is NOT the unborn). And people would “FIND” a way to bring someone into this world that they do not want and have little or no means to support? Not really. But those who can, will..and that’s why they won’t have abortions. But nor does it guarantee their (or their child’s) success.
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Rj said
And the last line that DVP wrote, is the honest-to-goodness truth.
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tothewire said
Found a post for Lawman2 at RJ’s other blog http://www.randijames.com/2009/02/i-found-some-real-men-and-they-are.html
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dorian9 said
all this talk about abortion – there should really be more done about the prevention of unwanted pregnancies, you know, the “prevention instead of cure” adage. more education on birth control and availability of contraceptives and birth control devices for women and men. for those who can’t afford, the dep’t of health and welfare should provide. anyone who thinks or says people should wait until married and ready to have children before having sex is in denial, sexually repressed, belongs to some cult or all of the aforementioned. people like to have sex. especially teen-agers. sex=babies. cause and effect. i feel a science rant coming on so i’ll stop. but God shouldn’t have thrown in pleasure with procreation. humans are not divine and zoned in on the pleasure principle.
kay our society may be a joke to you but you wouldn’t want to live in any other, trust me on that one. us americans do not know how fortunate we are that we are so protected by our many rights.
if it happens that conservatives get their wish and murder charges are brought upon women who have abortions then the man who participated in the conception of the unwanted embryo or fetus should be charged as accomplice to the crime. why leave the responsibility and culpability only to the woman? it wouldn’t be a baby without egg and sperm, right? a conservative’s america would have many big crowded prisons. just some thoughts. now on to some fun at ttp://www.randijames.com/2009/02/i-found-some-real-men-and-they-are.html
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Anonymous said
Definetally we should have more focus on prevention. Whats the ONLY 100% effective way to prevent pregnancy???
Teenagers do like sex. Lots of them like drugs too… but are we saying thats ok??? And why are we not saying its ok??? because its distructive, and causes problems.
IF- we do believe in God, who are we to tell him what he should or should not do?? If we truely believe he created this world, then who are we to challenge his design or his purposes??
If we dont, we cant use him the reason things are messed up.
If ppl dont use soap… the are dirty right? Soap is intended to make us clean. IF WE APPLY IT. Same with God, we have to apply his principals to our lives for them to work. And the fact is they work. Thats what our country was founded on. Our history books dont reflect it.. but its true. You can find the truth if you dig. =)
Ben Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention, said: “…God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?”
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Wyndee said
crap… forgot my name above. heeheee
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kay~ms said
Art Predator said..Most if not all of the people I know who are active on this issue are also active in other progressive causes like health care reform, living wage, educational opportunities, planet preservation, etc.
That is good, I guess it shows that they are sincere in alleviating the problem… that they truly care about the suffering in society… but what doesn’t make sense is that they are PROMOTING the suffering of innocent life by supporting abortion… if they really cared about human suffering… how can they support the legalization of the action of killing a live human being that feels pain and therefore is suffering?? I don’t get it… It kind of seems like they just do the other things to make it look like they are sincere and care… like the way Scientologists go out and help people in the community…everyone knows Scientology is a cult and when they are out ‘helping’ the community it’s just a front… it’s not sincere. The same way they display Crosses on their ‘churches’. Another “what a joke that is”.
you said…Be even nicer if the “pro-life” people chose to put their energies toward a working wage and other progressive issues rather than killing doctors…
You are making a generalized assumption that all Pro Life people are doctor killers?? Why do people who protest outside of abortion clinics enrage you?? There are some that are motivated by hate.. ALL groups have ‘some’… most Pro Lifers genuinely CARE about the suffering of others…THE INNOCENT. You shouldn’t be enraged by that.
you said…Kay, you may enjoy this type of interaction, but for me it is brutal. Awful. Vile. Bile is backed up in my throat. I don’t know you. I don’t want to hate you for making my world worse. But I’m done with this.
Oh how familiar this is… I swear, all Liberal Pro Choice people are related somehow… First, the all too familiar accusation that I am enjoying this… why? because I’m winning… well yeah.. who doesn’t enjoy winning?… but that is NOT my motive for discussing this issue, this isn’t about winning, but ALL of the Liberals that I have debated with so far truly do seem to see it that way and that is sad for them… my motivation SHOULD be clear.
Should you hate me because I want to stop babies from being murdered? You see that letting these babies live makes YOUR world worse? Pro Life people DO care about the same issues that you care about… only they see more POSITIVE, non destructive solutions, which may not be as easy but are RIGHT. The best interest is for ALL…ALL!! Not just some. Again, why does this enrage you?
You may think that you are ‘done’ with this issue… but clearly it is with you whether you talk about it or not, as with all of the others I’ve debated with on this topic… work it out for your own good… the anger won’t go away until you do. The bottom line is ALWAYS doing what is right, this is what God wants you / us to understand and when you do, then He gives you peace. It is the Truth…
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Arkangel_3 said
Art…call it a day; it’s not worth it. Kay, I don’t know you nor have I debated with you before. All I have been able to determine about you based on your comments above is that you are a narrow and closed minded individual. You group people into statistical or political buckets like a bunch of cattle based on their political or socio-economic circumstances. Your way is the correct way. Your belief system is the correct belief system.
9/11 was carried out by people like you who were so narrow minded and ideologically “perfect”. I know. I’m a 9/11 survivor; I’ve had enough taste of political and religious fanaticism to last a lifetime. I was witness to the handiwork of human beings who think like you do, and as long as I breathe I will make sure this never happens again.
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kay~ms said
DVP..whoops.. I mean RJ… I’m sorry but it isn’t respectable when someone exits a debate, with their stance STILL unjustified… and with their eyes and mind stubbornly closed… the RIGHT and (self) respectable thing to do is to work it out not ignore it.
I said: If Liberals would focus and use their time to work on programs and aid for mothers / parents instead of fighting for this ‘right’
you said..It is when things like this are said (blatant ignorance) that we should realize that there is nothing more to say.
You keep making these vague statements… again, no substance to your comments… I truly fail to see how my comment implies ignorance…
Your reasoning is that unless a solution is proven, we should stick with what ‘works’? Regardless of the fact that it is the most hideous and barbaric solution?? Do you know what else ‘works’? The Marxist belief that the elderly and disabled, when not able to contribute to society anymore, should be euthanized… of course that ‘works’, society as a whole can only benefit from that… again… you and all pro choice people need to start thinking outside of your primitive little boxes… or as you call it… ” the ‘real’ world “.
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kay~ms said
Wydee… I’m so glad you are here… your comments are by far the most intelligent here… including mine..
OTA… where are you? We need you here…
Lawman… you too…
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kay~ms said
People I don’t even know are getting sooo angry with me because I want to stop living babies from being killed….WHAT??? I don’t get it!!
Have any of you heard of the concept of compromise??? This PROVES my point that it is all about winning for liberal pro choice people…. NO ONE has yet to come up with the most LOGICAL and SENSIBLE idea that I have been alluding to for quite awhile now….a movement and support to STOP late term abortions!!! Why no compromise here???? Where is the bipartisanship??? And this isn’t some freakin issue about tax breaks for the rich or something… this is about HUMAN LIFE, TRUE HUMAN SUFFERING…. I want to go throw up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is wrong with you people?????????????????
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Lawman2 said
tothewire made me promise kay…
but were the hell is ota?
of course if everyone takes this to the debate page, i never promised not to debate on the debate page!
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Rj said
lawman, can you make some popcorn for me too? i love to snack when i’m at the zoo.
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Wyndee said
Thanks Kay. I hope you know I see your passion for the unborn and your heart for them, and I feel ya. I do feel you should know that blasting people with things like ‘whats wrong with you’ will close the door to their heart so fast its not even funny. 1 Cor. 13-‘if we have not love, we have nothing…’ ya know?
btw- RJ- I hope you know my intention was not to offend you, although I do know thru experience truth often offends. I do think that since its my tax dollars paying for their health care, I have full rights to ask what they are doing about things like, getting a job, and how they are paying for braces…. I would expect the same if I was on it. =) Accountability keeps us on the right track.
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kay~ms said
And here we go again…
Arkangel said..Art…call it a day; it’s not worth it. Kay, I don’t know you nor have I debated with you before. All I have been able to determine about you based on your comments above is that you are a narrow and closed minded individual.
First, I’ll address the familiar ‘rescue’ attemps by fellow liberals as seen here once again… and then the all too common accusations of me being narrow and closed minded by the all knowing, intellectual superior, ‘non’ primitive Liberals… again, I swear you guys are somehow all related… I have just one response to the accusation of MY ignorance… please go to this link and read comments #36 & #38 then tell me who is IGNORANT!
And… here we go again with this common liberal accusation…
Your way is the correct way. Your belief system is the correct belief system.
So I am committing the horrible atrocity of believing that my way is the right way…
so I have to ask… do you believe that your way is the right way??? if not then you wouldn’t be here arguing… right??…. More Liberal ignorance… you guys just keep proving me right over and over again…
And yet ANOTHER all too familiar Liberal accusation…. I’m a terrorist!! My view is different from yours therefore I promote and support violence?? WHAT???? PLEASE direct me to any comments I have made to support this belief…. YET MORE DISTORTED Liberal views!!!
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dorian9 said
pray tell kay – out of curiosity what qualifies as compromise to you?
i would also like to acknowledge that arkangel’s experience as a 9/11 survivor put him in the face of true human suffering.
that is as real and brutal as any other experience anyone can ever imagine.
oh pass the popcorn please…i’ll share my junior mints..
ota i know you’re there – you’re showing up in the reader finder radar. hehe
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Rj said
you know what I forgot to tell you all, I LOVE those Lindts white chocolate balls…LOL
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kay~ms said
Gee Dorian… do you think it might be somewhere around the time when the fetus (baby) feels pain??? And when it is a formed human with a heart beat?
And are you trying to imply that I am insensitive to Arkangels 9/11 experience because I am Pro Life? again… WHAT??
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kay~ms said
Wow… that MUST mean something else comming from RJ…
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kay~ms said
Wyndee said…I do feel you should know that blasting people with things like ‘whats wrong with you’ will close the door to their heart so fast its not even funny. 1 Cor. 13-’if we have not love, we have nothing…’ ya know?
I do know, and I do wonder if my aproach is the right one… but I also know this…. one of the most fundamental Christian teachings is humility… people who are so full of pride don’t know this most basic important quality that helps them KNOW GOD. It’s actually a requirement… that is what brings us to God… and the lack of humility is the very thing that stops people from coming to Him.
1 Cor. 13-’if we have not love, we have nothing…’
Tough love is the aproach that I feel is the only one that will work with people who haven’t learned that humility lesson… just like a drug addict…. the only way they are going to get better is if they hit rock bottom first… but the problem is that they ‘bail’ before that happens… but I hope that I’ve planted a seed of understanding that will grow over time… I’ve given away my strategy and I hope it doesn’t hinder what I’m trying to do… stubborness, ignorance and PRIDE probably will no doubt make some go away for good at this point… I hope not…
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dorian9 said
i just had to acknowledge what arkangel shared – i knew people who perished in 9/11 and people who were there that day and survived.
so are you okay with the morning after pill? if there’s conception there, it’s considered abortion too isn’t it?
that’s rj being glib there.
i just invented a new word – gliberal
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Arkangel_3 said
For the record, I consider myself to be a political Independent, leaning toward the Progmatic Progressive side of the spectrum, although I do hold many Libertarian views. My position on abortion rights is decidedly Libertarian. Do not assume that I am a Liberal all the time, although when I am, I wear that distinction proudly and not with the derision that some would dispense upon those who consider themselves Liberals.
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dorian9 said
correction i discovered a new word. now someone has to come up with something for the conservatives.
i’m done. cheers.
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THISISGODSPEAKING said
DORIAN’S NEW WORD HAS MY BLESSING
RJ GETS POPCORN AND CHOCOLATE
KAY IS RIGHT ABORTION IS MURDER
ARKANGLE IS RIGHT TO POINT OUT ART PREDATOR SHOULDN’T FEED THE KAY
LAWMAN SHOULD BE WORSHIPED HE IS ALL KNOWING AND A HANDSOM CAVEMAN TO BOOT
DON’T TEMPT THE LORD YOUR GOD I MIGHT SHIT IN YOUR OATMEAL TOMORROW.
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dorian9 said
arkangel- holding libertarian views nowadays automatically gives you a “liberal” label. i used to be put off by being swept into the “you liberals..” decrees but after hearing it over and over it becomes a moot point. if you profess any libertarian views on anything it opens up a barrage of name calling. why my inner conservative is offended sometimes! i can bet some of my views and values are more conservative than those very people who have derided my liberal views.
i’m done. really.
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ITSMEAGAINMARGRET said
LAWMAN IS SO SMART!
P.S. I THINK TOTHEWIRE WAS THE ONE WHO ATE ALL THE WORLD PEACE ICE CREAM
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dorian9 said
and God still doesn’t have spellcheck.
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lawman2 said
wow it’s good to read ya here again GOD and margret!
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dorian9 said
i smell february schizophrenia here. must be because the ruling planet these days is uranus.
i gotta pay for my braces so i really really have to work.
hasta la blogsta
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lawman2 said
i am a republican usually.
i do believe gays should be allowed to marry.
i do believe abortion is murder
i do believe obama is a socialist
i am not proud that i voted for bush 2 times
i think palin is hot
i think mccain is old
i think obama is an oreo (love oreos they are the best of two)
i think liberal women are confused but sexy!
i am an atheist
and i think itsmeagainmargret is so smart too!
i know,i know you’re thinking what a pig! nope you’re wrong…i’m just a caveman!
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tothewire said
I think Lawman is a nerd without spell check.
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tothewire said
Not to mention how sacrilegious I think your THISISGODSPEAKING comments are lawman.
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kay~ms said
Dorian… I personally wouldn’t want the morning after pill to be legal because it goes against my religious beliefs.. what I believe God wants… but I do understand and agree with the concept of separation of Church and State…because I wouldn’t want to be forced to adhere to someone else’s religion… but would I be upset if the morning after pill was made illegal? No… I would be glad. Just like I would be glad if our government was a Christian government.
Lawman.. you are so funny…I think your child is really going to enjoy having you for a dad.
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SewDucky said
Well, I’m a card carrying democrat usually, and even I have to agree with half of Lawman’s comments here.
Palin IS hot, but I don’t like women, liberal or otherwise, I didn’t vote for Bush at all, and I’m not exactly an Atheist, but hen again I’d of been burned at the stake several hundred years ago.
Abortion is one of those things that really easy to take a stand on…until you’re in it.
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lawman2 said
gosh just got back to this page and kay made me blush!i’m hoping our child enjoys my parenting him/her.
elaina!our southern bell,welcome back!i was beginning to wonder if someone passed gas here on our little blog and you couldn’t stand the smell…lol
my wife says the same thing about the abortion issue.is that like a saying that pro choicers have?
at any rate welcome back girl!
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SewDucky said
LOL I don’t know, I’m pro-life.
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lawman2 said
hmm well then we will put the question to the pro choicers!
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kay~ms said
Response to Arkangel_3 on the debate page…
https://tothewire.wordpress.com/like-to-debate/
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abortion clinics said
Hey are using WordPress for your site platform? I’m new to the blog world
but I’m trying to get started and create my own. Do you
need any html coding expertise to make your own blog? Any help would be really appreciated!
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