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In Trouble? Princess Might Be. How About Nancy? Is she in trouble?

Posted by dorian on May 21, 2009

Topic A: Is Pelosi in Trouble?

Washington Post Thursday, May 21, 2009; 12:00AM

090520_pelosi_shinkle_297

Photo: John Shinkle

Former House speaker Newt Gingrich has called on current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to step down following her charge that the CIA misled her in a 2002 briefing on interrogation techniques. The Post asked experts and lawmakers if the controversy has weakened Pelosi. Below are contributions from Karl Rove, Steny Hoyer, Douglas E. Schoen, Lisa Schiffren and John B. Larson.

KARL ROVE

White House deputy chief of staff and senior adviser to George W. Bush; columnist for Newsweek and the Wall Street Journal

The kerfluffle over House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s CIA briefing on enhanced interrogation matters a lot.

First, there’s the question of credibility. Was Pelosi telling the truth when she asserted that the CIA told her about the techniques but said they hadn’t been used? Is she the only person from that September 2002 briefing who is telling the truth, and everyone else is lying? Credibility is the currency of leadership, and Pelosi will be weakened enormously if she lied.

Second, there’s the question of equity. If Bush administration lawyers were complicit in torture by drafting memos describing permissible limits of interrogation and should now be disbarred or prosecuted, what about Pelosi, who admits that by February 2003 she knew about these procedures and did essentially nothing?

Finally, there’s the question of resolution. Is Pelosi right or are her critics? This issue cannot remain unresolved. Leaving it so will reflect badly on Democrats unless a speedy release of CIA documents and testimony under oath by Pelosi, Porter Goss, and the CIA officials and two congressional staffers who were at the September 2002 briefing bear out the speaker’s explosive charge. Refusing to get it all out now will simply confirm what most of Washington concluded after the speaker’s incoherent, rambling news conference last Thursday: She’s not telling the truth.

STENY HOYER

Democratic representative from Maryland; House majority leader

I believe Speaker Pelosi. I take her at her word when she says that she was not briefed in September 2002 on the CIA’s use of waterboarding. Former senator Bob Graham, who is well-known for his meticulous daily journal, said the same thing; and although he was not in the same briefing as Speaker Pelosi, he was briefed in the same month, on the same topic. You’d be hard-pressed to find a member of the Democratic Caucus who disagrees — all of us stand behind our speaker.

For some, “what did you know and when did you know it?” is an entertaining distraction. But I can think of another statement that deserves far more scrutiny than anything Speaker Pelosi said. Four words from the mouth of an American president, spoken in 2005: “We do not torture.” Those words are either true or false; and if they are false, then it means that our country, acting in your name and in mine, practiced great cruelty and acted against our security and our deepest principles. That is an argument worth having — and if critics shunt it aside to talk about parlor games in the House, then they have told you everything you need to know about their seriousness.

DOUGLAS E. SCHOEN

Democratic pollster and author

Nancy Pelosi has been weakened by the controversy over waterboarding, but it is unlikely to undermine her position and authority, at least in the short term. There have been rumblings of a palace coup, but nothing tangible has surfaced. The poll numbers to keep in mind are 65 percent, 45 percent and 31 percent — the approval ratings of President Obama, congressional Democrats and Speaker Pelosi herself. If the Republicans are successful in the 2010 elections, or before, in making Nancy Pelosi the face of the Democratic Party — as we did in the mid-1990s with then-Speaker Newt Gingrich and the Republican Party — the situation could change fundamentally. With 30 or 40 marginal Democratic seats potentially up for grabs next year from newly elected Blue Dogs, the Democratic Party will be very sensitive to efforts to change the party’s public face from the president to the speaker. And should Republicans get some traction from this strategy, Steny Hoyer could get renewed attention and interest from nervous Democrats.

LISA SCHIFFREN

Speechwriter to Vice President Dan Quayle; contributor to National Review Online’s “The Corner” blog

“The CIA lied. Nancy cried.” was a punch line in my inbox yesterday. You know you’re in trouble when they’re laughing at you.

There may be politicians who would not be weakened if caught in a credibility battle with the CIA about whether they had known about a program — call it torture — that they had used to symbolize the evil, arrogance, lawlessness and cupidity of their political opposition. Nancy Pelosi is not one of them. She holds power because she pulled together a majority of Democrats — no mean feat. But that’s all she has. She is not known for her intellect, character, principles, passion for justice, charming idiosyncrasies or stirring rhetoric. She’s replaceable.

Months ago, a CIA analyst friend mentioned how shocked she’d been the first time she briefed the speaker. The money quote was, “She lacks, entirely, the ability to think strategically.” Indeed. Pelosi lucked out in having universal target George Bush as her enemy. Choosing the CIA as his replacement was foolish.

JOHN B. LARSON

Democratic representative from Connecticut; chairman of the House Democratic Caucus

The Democratic Caucus is moving ahead with a bold agenda to rebuild our economy, create jobs in new clean-energy industries and reform our health care system to lower costs and ensure quality, affordable care for all Americans. Republicans such as Newt Gingrich and John Boehner are simply trying to stop progress and distract from the accomplishments of this Congress.

Republican criticisms of Speaker Pelosi are just hypocritical political games and a distraction from the important work we have in front of us. The speaker is a woman of great integrity and honesty, and the Democratic Caucus is united behind her. Newt Gingrich’s latest publicity stunt is a perfect example of the sort of “inside the Beltway” bickering that the American people clearly voted against in November. His attacks on Speaker Pelosi do nothing but strengthen our resolve to make progress on the priorities of the American people.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

it’s the republicans vs the democrats again. and again…what happened to the horse and pony meeting the republicans had the other day about re-branding the official democratic party name to democrat socialist party? maybe they figured out they had better things to meet about. i heard rush limbaugh turned in his resignation as republican party leader. maybe anne coulter will take the helm. is nancy in trouble? i hope not. she was my neighbor at the S.F eight district which she represented as congresswoman. she was always nice and gave us good candy on halloween. Nancy said the CIA lied – even though we all know that the CIA, like george washington, cannot tell a lie – and i believe her.

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17 Responses to “In Trouble? Princess Might Be. How About Nancy? Is she in trouble?”

  1. princessxxx said

    nancy pelosi and i, the voice of reason in a world full of “intellectuals” (roflmao, (+)(=.)

    the cia, the worst kind of homosexuals. tired and humorless. that is not my opinion, that is a fact.

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  2. I really want to beat up that idiot who took those pictures at abu garib. Even though a confession under torture is not 100% accurate a trained operative will break and tell all of their secrets just to make it stop. What is called “torture” is sleep deprevation, food deprevation, “psych out” tactics (they are so fun to administer.) Just to name a few. So according to Nancy Pelosi these things are torture..but these things are common first and second week conditioning in the Army Rangers and Special Forces training. Does that mean I was tortured? NO. Nancy Pelosi is an idiot really let the CIA operatives do thier jobs. (many ranger and spec forces trained for counter insurgency and other things I cannot get into.) I am kind of against water boarding, alligator clamps on nipples while connected to a battery while standing in water, and anal penetration with vibrating plastic object. Except when my wife does those to me then it’s foreplay. But I made it through Ranger training so I have had worse done to me. I am really against the Rambo esque “interrogation” techniques. If you are coming up foggy to that movie reference watch Rambo first blood watch the torture scene. Unlike what the liberal and conservative media (both force feeding both brands of poison on this subject.) tell you the US Military, CIA, and etc are not as bad as the Vietcong was. I am too young to have been in Vietnam but my uncles were and the stories I have heard lets just say I would let the US interrogate me the way they used to than let the Vietcong interrogate me. Let’s get real for a second, Standard Operating Procedure for interrogating someone suspected of insurgency, espionage, or other treasonous or enemy acts against the Soverign United States of America. Is one not to let the suspect sleep for more than two hours a day. The human body can live on 14 hours of sleep a week and still function at top capacity. I know I did it for six years and then an extra year while I was addicted to Meth. Even though I am clean (off meth) I still do not sleep that much. This is sleep depravation and is step one. Step two used to be called psychological warfare. Cops use it against multiple perps. When dealing with a fundamentalist (most terroists including the domestic non-islamic jihadist kind. And yes there have been Christian terrorists. Timothy Mcveigh, the Unibomber, Zodiac killer just to name a few were all devout christians that said God told them to do it. The islamic jihadist (which is only a very small percent of the islamic population contrary to what the news stations tell you, basically believe the same thing.) they will not tell you the information that is needed to save American lives, or the greater good. Nancy seems to think that we can go up to a religious fundamentalist and say, “Hi, Where is your leader?” and they will tell us. Well Nancy yaafm. Sleep deprevation, food depravation, and psychological warfare is the most effective way to get information from someone who will never tell you other wise. Of course the nice way is tried first but almost never works, and there are people with special training that can get all the information that is needed just from your body language and how you say something, and you will never know you’ve just been interrogated. The die hard fundamentalist is willing to die for thier beliefs, whether it be thier faith or leader they will not say anything more than one word answers. But after a week of 14 hours of sleep collectively and bread and water, combine that with are you hungry I have an extra cheese burger for some answers to simple questions. People start coming out of thier shell and will break oaths just for sleep or something more than bread and water. Of course you can go farther by doing a complete and elaborate mind F*CK everyone breaks and sometimes the easiest way is not by physical means. These are old tactics that do work but now all of a sudden these tactics that protected our borders for so many years is being called inhumane? But Nancy don’t you know because of the Bush Administration these things are needed to help us fight off terrorist attacks. There are things that are going on right now that the government will deny happens and unless someone drops the ball and fails at stopping a threat the media never finds out about it. But it happens and I would bet something is happening right now and whatever agency that is supposed to keep it from happening is trying to stop it from happening. Sounds like fiction but black ops missions to protect our borders is not a new 24ish or 9/11 concept. I can assure you even though they don’t exist “officially” does not mean it doesn’t happen. There are somethings the public should never know about and that is how intellegence used to protect the Nation’s Security as a whole is one of them. For all those who think all information should be given freely, think about this. If I told you the reader, for example, how to convert an AR-16 (civillian version of the M-16A1 or A2 depending on manufacturer) from the legal semi-automatic to three-round burst or full auto. That does not mean you SHOULD. Without the wisdom to know when that feature should be used the knowledge really is useless. Same concept there are somethings as painful to some including myself that the public should not know for it’s own safety and well being. Nancy should be fired the new house speaker should tell the public that the government officially does not condone this kind of action. But if it happens behind closed doors out of sight, it is not happening. The last sentence should not be told to the public. And if anyone thinks these practices by intellegence organizations are unethical and inhuman then drag the police into it that use the same tactics on keeping drug smugglers and rapists behind bars. Drag the prison guard who uses the same tactics for information on who stabbed someone’s father and why. How is that not a ethical problem but doing it to a Religious Fundamentalist is? Are we afraid of an extremist religious organization? (not just jihadists but EVERY religion has these types of organizations whether you say untill you are blue this statement is not true or not it does not make it any less true.) Must we use kid’s gloves and do the same to a North Korean intelligence operative trying to get national security secrets so North Korea can plan an attack or invasion of the US? That is just an example. I can see that going over real well the operative goes back to his superiors gives the information to them and laughs at us because we just slapped his/her hand and said no really sternly. It is laughable. Every action has a concequence it is a fact of life. So to the people trying to change things whether it be gun control or the way our intellegence operatives gather information from someone who has been proven to be a security risk .(these tactics are not used on suspected security risks.) Think about how will this affect things? If only criminals can get the guns and a law abiding citizen cannot use the same force to protect his/her family how many more people will die because I dont think a citizen should own a firearm. Or think to yourself if we were allowed to gather intellegence more effectively would (future tragic event here) have happened? Long comment short. Fire Nancy, stop focusing on “torture” and start focusing on how we as a nation have the lowest quality of education in the world and how can we fix it? Or how do we fix this economy? Or how can we gain energy independence from foreign energy sources. Those are more important questions.

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  3. Anonymous said

    e_e that is a fascinating read. i get a fresher perspective.

    i think everyone is aware of these tactics. i went to an ACLU meeting the other night and the speaker was a young black woman that operates a home for people living with hiv & aids.
    well, she got arrested for something she did not commit and the cops verbally and physically beat this poor woman in front of her 4 yr old son.
    she is trying to sue, but the sarasota county gov. apparently thinks that this is standard operating procedure.

    a few years back,i got the shit beat out of me by a cop for a traffic stop because he didn’t like my witty gay humor. of course that went no where, either, because, well, bradenton beach, home of the manatee people. stupid redneck christians that think they know what is best.

    in conclusion, boy i’m glad nancy spoke up, makes my posts sound less stupid. i really dodged a bullet there.

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  4. princessxxx said

    oops, anonymous is me.
    don’t laugh ya’ll, i am at a library.

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  5. dorian9 said

    maybe the torture focus is just a diverting tactic and they’re covering up something really devious – who can trust the feds? in the end all this will make for a good movie. not all information should be freely given. e_e is right, because there are too many psychopaths with twisted agendas around. i’m sure there will be many state secrets kept intact. like the roswell files. i think nancy’s just pissed because the bushies aren’t going down without taking someone else and it’s her. liar’s!! she says to the CIA.

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  6. Ya well local law enforcement does more physical abuse during interrogation than the feds do. And there is a reason why that happens. Statistically most local law enforcement officers either crave to dominate over people or were the kids that got picked on in school and now they have the need to show those that picked on him he or she is superior. Of course there are the people that join local law enforcement because they want to enforce the law. Because of that diversity and many claim they want to enforce the law what they say does not really mean subconsciously they really want to. This is based on observations I had in a reserve MP unit where 95% are local law enforcement in the civilian world. And princess you should think of considering moving to Hernando County. My cousin is of the homosexual preference and needs a significant other and I wouldn’t mind having you in the family. It would be good to see him smile. (Trying to play matchmaker on the blog ftw!) I have reason to believe that Kay either lives in Pasco County or Hernando County, but maybe I am just hopeful on that. Come on Princess you know you want to…just bring some world peace, I will supply the world peace pipe. Dorian (who does not live in florida unfortunately) will fly in and bring the ice cream. And kay can come to for entertainment purposes.

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  7. Xashered said

    Действительно удивили и порадовали 🙂 Никогда не поверил бы, что даже такое бывает 🙂

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  8. dorian9 said

    e_e will perform the commitment rites and i will play my chords.

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  9. dorian9 said

    betty will take the photos and wyndee will be bridesmaid, also lend you a pair of shoes (something blue). and everyone shall have a happy, shiny day.

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  10. kay~ms said

    E.. you touched on some good points.. the big question circulating on the cable news shows now is… should torture be used if it can saves lives? Did the interogation techniques used under the Bush administration save lives? I think probably yes.

    And here is the other good point that you made and that I agree with… in the law enforcement world… there does seem to be two kinds of people: the ones who like the power trip. And the ones who truly want to help the community (in a law abiding way) Everytime I look at a cop I immediately wonder which one they are. I had a close friend who was in law enforcement and she was definitely there for the power trip. She used to talk about how she couldn’t wait for the opportunity to pull over her ex boyfriend. This is obviously a mild example of corruption, we all know that it gets far worse. ( and also she used to turn her lights on when she was in a hurry to get home after her shift ).. I bet a lot of them do that.

    So that, I think is one of the main concerns of the issue of using torture. What frame of mind is the torturer in? Will he/she abuse their power? You tell the wrong person it’s okay to torture and it’s like giving an arsonist standing in a forest a box of matches.

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  11. princessxxx said

    Tesi, antitesi, la sintesi

    e_e = e_eMCe_e(SQUARED), times the buzz. divided by the number of toes on a hemingway cat,
    and well, you got yourself a boyfriend. yeah! give or take a few hundred miles.
    e_e, if your bro is as smart & kinky as you, i’m all there, but i must warn you. i’m this obnoxious in real life. even more so. i despise deodorant.

    that is what ADKOB lacks, the homosexual agenda. i really had a few pleasant fantasies of turning baal’s weekly devotionals into my own personal e-harmony site. sounds like a plan. and a dream come true.

    and the plan is pikachupacabras, if that is your real species, i’m staring my own dullvotional.
    it is the “Baal Keller Fanatix.” premiers this coming monday. it will be the only pic i post here at the ADKOB” every monday morning. the articles and fashion layouts will be at princessxxx. lots of polls.
    i want to respect that this site is about politics & religion. and current world events. so you get the cover of my fanzine, similar to “tigerbeat” meets the “world weekly news” and a link to the mag with all the fun stuff at the beginning of every work week.
    does that work for you guys? i hope so because that is how i am going to do it anyway.
    thanks for inviting me.

    and betty, with those 3 syllable slanderous words.
    “mar-gar-et” i hope you don’t mean that “mar-gar-et”:

    Princess Margaret Dies at 71; Sister of Queen Elizabeth Had a Troubled Life
    By JOSEPH R. GREGORY
    Published: Sunday, February 10, 2002

    well, of course betty, if that is your real name, i did have a troubled life. but i did not die at 71. not yet.

    try princess “car-o-line”, think hermes’ scarves
    try princess “steph-a-nie”, think herpes scars.

    something more like that. try to be nicer, like kay.

    you see, you guys, i went completely insane when george bush was elected president.

    and you kay, i don’t recall you saying one nice thing about my presentation of wyndee.
    not one. you just had to go and make it all about you. well…i never.
    that was one of the most creative things i did in a long time.

    and those torturers, they’re everywhere. sounds like we have 2 or 3 of them right here.

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  12. An interregator, and a criminal profiler are given psych evaluations at least three times a year. Also they are watched for abuse of power issues. The thing I liked about your comment is you said under the bush administration. Believe it or not we have been doing things this way since before world war 2. It worked why change it now?

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  13. princessxxx said

    casablanca – i understand it has been going on since the trojan war. espionage. all that gets you is another dick cheney. dick cheney is “the most dangerous woman in the world”. despite what kay may think.
    and in my opinion, the “ugliest woman alive” i’m this close to giving him a makeover, make him prettier and more accessible like wyndee.

    you still gonna fix me up with your brother? hope he’s not a log cabin repulican. and if he wears cologne, forget it.

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  14. princessxxx said

    i don’t think that the cia should torture nancy pelosi:
    she does the same thing that this guy in the video does.
    it’s a mess to clean up.

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  15. Not my brother my cousin in law…I dont think he is a log cabin republician if he was I would vent my anger on him physically. I am suddenly very angry and I just want to start a fight club and destroy something beautiful. I just saw Terminator Salvation but the violence in that movie is not causing this radical shift in mood. Stupid PTSD, the situation and landscape might be though…I have no idea…but ya…I dont think he wears cologne. I think I am going to play son l4d and just be violent with it. I wish my comp could play fallout 3 cause then I would be killing everything cheat code everything launch mini-nukes at everything….thats what I need to do.

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  16. princessxxx said

    good idea, and speaking of terminator…have you heard of the palin8tor?

    she is showing up here at the x-files. i’m taking out my anger on real life zombies.

    with tactful, comprehensible, bullcrap. which i like to call peace & luv.
    so tell me more about your cousin in law.

    http://princessxxx.wordpress.com/

    Like

  17. Oh. Sorry. I meant Princess Anne.

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