A Different Kind of Blog

news and things sacred and irreverent put together by opinionated people.

L.A. tops cities ‘meanest’ to homeless, Florida has 4 in the Top 10

Posted by princessxxx on July 16, 2009


LOS ANGELES, July 15 (UPI) — Los Angeles is the “meanest” city in the United States when it comes to the treatment of homeless people, advocates for the homeless say.  The National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty asserted that the California city’s adoption of ordinances “criminalizing” behaviors associated with homelessness, such as lying down on sidewalks, makes it the “meanest” city in the country toward those living on the streets, the group said in a release accompanying a report on the issue titled “Homes Not Handcuffs: The Criminalization of Homelessness in U.S. Cities.”

“Even though most cities do not provide enough affordable housing, and food to meet the need, many cities use the criminal justice system to punish people living on the street for doing things that they need to do to survive,” the report’s authors say.

Los Angeles topped the NLCHP’s list for reportedly spending of $6 million per year to police the city’s skid row while paying only $5.7 million for homeless services.

Also making the top 10 “meanest” cities list were St. Petersburg, Fla.; Orlando, Fla.; Atlanta; Gainesville, Fla.; Kalamazoo, Mich.; San Francisco; Honolulu; Bradenton, Fla.; and Berkeley, Calif.




68 Responses to “L.A. tops cities ‘meanest’ to homeless, Florida has 4 in the Top 10”

  1. dorian said

    i think san francisco ranks in the list because the weather is temperate and there are many homeless migrating there. it’s a relatively small city and the social service facilities can’t accommodate the huge numbers. there are some good gov’t., volunteer and private programs that do some good work like meals on wheels. it’s just that the numbers are hard to keep up with.


  2. princessxxx said

    you’re right, it is the weather. it is worse in the winter here.
    i was homeless for 2 years in Sarasota when it was rated #1.

    it was pretty ‘mean’. luckily a very beautiful library just a few blocks from the salvation army.
    i could study art out of the hot sun. i was very ill.

    but they started cracking down at the library, too.


  3. kay~ms said

    P, I am so glad that you are no longer homeless. I live here in Sarasota… I see the homeless on a daily basis and I get angry at the government. I don’t know why more isn’t done to help them. The Salvation Army isn’t large enough to house all of them. I don’t know why they can’t set up temporary housing on empty city lots to put a roof over their heads at the very least.

    My opinion is that it’s all of the people here with money, they “convince” the police to crack down on the homeless. And the police here are corrupt, just the other day another video was released of a man getting beaten by a Sarasota cop.


  4. dorian said

    kay, i love and appreciate you. really, i do.


  5. Indeed. Now let’s close the big unwieldy thread and get on with our lives.Reading it after a night’s sleep and seeing how everyone was banging on, it looked sclerotic and unhelpful. No air there, and everyone clawing at each other. You have the power. Though it must be nice for P. to have found someone who will ALWAYS take the bait.


  6. kay~ms said

    Dorian… you’re going to make me cry.. really… I love you and appreciate you too. I may get too critical (sorry) but it really isn’t personal, I just do feel like there is a movement (liberalism) going on that is threatening Christianity and I can’t help getting emotional about it.

    And one of the things I like / appreciate the most about you… your poems… I love them!


  7. dorian said

    see what i mean? kay is all heart. i’ll take that anytime. we bicker but that’s all part of our differing beliefs and we do have common ground and that’s l-o-v-e. yeah it’s sappy but i do believe all of us have that in us. been trying to work on john but he’s just keeping the iron armor on!


  8. Enkill_Eridos said

    Tampa should be on that list. The only homeless shelters open other than the sally which does nothing is for drug addicts and families. St. Pete is on there because they closed down tent city. Also I must add the sally only houses homeless people for a night. Unless you have a full-time job. If you have a part-time job you get to stay the night for $10 a night. Which is cheap but sometimes when the only income you have is day labor and that particular company does not have any work for you. There is no other choice if you are past the 10-day probationary period. Also the sally does not house you if you have a part-time job and get off after 3:00. They open thier doors at 3 you hop on the bus and make it there at 4:30 sometimes if you are extremely lucky you will get in at 4:30 but 99% of the time you are on the streets. Since most other homeless shelters do not accept non-substance addicted people. Your SOL. There was a homeless shelter I stayed in Punta Gorda I have to give props to. They actually would process you in at all hours of the night. Get you a bed feed you, try to get you some work. Morning bible study all that. That is how a homeless shelter should be. But there are only a handful that work like that and the sally is not one of them. They do some good but not as much good as other shelters in that area.

    And Kay, the liberals are not attacking christianity. There are far more christians that happen to be liberal than you actually give credit for.


  9. kay~ms said

    EE, many liberals probably don’t realize what they are supporting (the end of Christianity). But there are plenty who know exactly what they are doing. Liberal Christians? Yeah, Mormons are “Christians” too.


  10. And Kay, the liberals are not attacking christianity. There are far more christians that happen to be liberal than you actually give credit for.

    Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many.
    How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.
    9 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
    By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?


  11. kay~ms said

    very fitting passages…. thank you John.


  12. Anti liberal says said

    very fitting passages… thanks John.


  13. kay~ms said

    uh-oh… I think the liberals are getting mad…


  14. kay~ms said

    I’ll try this again…. “waiting moderation”

    very fitting passages… thanks John


  15. 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 – [Verse 5 in Original Greek]
    4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth F47 not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, IS NOT EASILY PROVOKED, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; F48 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.


  16. Enkill_Eridos said

    I was not even talking about religion but an organization that is run like prison or jail. Have you ever stayed a night in the sally? The intentions are there but it is not directly run by the church. A high ranking member does do checks but it is the homeless that run the sally. And favortism and corruption runs high. The one I am taking about is on florida ave in Tampa. The homeless shelter in Punta Gorda I was talking about. Is run by a nice southern baptist woman that is called Miss Judy. She makes no profit off of it. She actually spends her own money to make sure it is still around. She created a ministry and homeless shelter that helps that community. She probably feels the same way as you do about Mormons. This shelter is like a small little city. And everyone that lives there that does not have a job helps with this ministry that helps the misfortunate. The sunday services will never be in a church, and guest pastors, and pastors in the CMA preach on sunday. That organization although is not huge, is a true christian homeless shelter. I dont think either of you realize but a lot of so called “christian homeless shelters” only accept you if you have a substance-abuse problem. Most do not allow them to have jobs when they first are intaked. For the sally to have a bed and area to sleep in you need a full time job. But places like Miss Judy’s shelter in Punta Gorda takes in everybody. Substance abuse problem or not. Job or not. If you are staying there and have income then you are expected to make a donation. IF not you work your keep. She helps you find a job and get back on your feet. She helps you not be homeless. In my experience most shelters do not offer this kind of help. And people that run these kinds of things are bringing down christianity? Miss Judy does not profit from these shelters all the money goes back into it, and in the community. Go down to Punta Gorda and see for yourself.


  17. Having run a prison unit, nothiing you describe is like it.


  18. Enkill_Eridos said

    @kay about the comments going to pending

    and its not the liberals it is something to do with your IP kay log in on the meta if you want to comment and tht should stop. I am working on finding out why so many are being put to the bucket. One reason I can think of is WordPress wants you to login before hand. Ill get comfirmation on that.

    But you start talking about false prophets and anti-liberals when we are talking about good christian homeless shelters that feed the hungry, the poor, the dejected. Organizations that praise the glory of God and does nothing to tarnish itself. Mandatory bible study and prayer time each morning an night. So how is what I said even relevant? Are you mad that I do more work on this blog than you realize? I make sure everything runs smoothly, I am a computer science major with background in webpage development and administrator. I offered to make sure this blog runs smoothly. If you are mad because I am doing what someone who I consider a friend asked me to do. Just because I do not post all the time does not mean I am not active. I am not against christianity just the big churches. Because like big government, big church gets corrupt. I am not talking about huge churches but the huge organizations and panels that govern what these churches teach. In Catholism this is called a Diocese. I want to see more churches without walls. I want to see more churches actually active in the community. I don’t see very many there are a few. What is destroying christianity is not the liberals, it is the organizations that are controlling the churches.


  19. Enkill_Eridos said

    Would you ever let inmates run your prision unit john? You know what would happen if you did? That is what the sally is like.


  20. I know exactly what happens when inmates take over a unit. Your “sally” is nothing like that. On the other hand, homelessness is not a crime.

    Do you think churches are buildings and Christianity is controlled by denominations and their doctrines?


  21. Enkill_Eridos said

    Okay n its not a crime but when a majority of the homeless that stays in the sally are ex-cons and when those ex-cons are in charge of intake and other things there are some problems. It is institutionalized. While simular not really the same. Its hard to explain the BS one has to go through just to not sleep on the street when you rely solely on the sally. When there are other options that actually help and not just provide a night of sleep on a cot. There are other organizations the help get you a job and help find you perminate housing. The sally around you may or may not be like the one I experienced. There is a difference between a Ministry and a Church John. There are some ministries that do not hold services in churches. There are some that is not controlled by the doctrines that some denominational associations create. But then again there are many that are just a building and apart of the denominational associations. Some help some don’t.


  22. kay~ms said

    Hey EE.. could you also look into why I can’t log in to post or edit anything?


  23. I tried the street for a few nights in Vancouver, BC a few decades ago. I slept on the floor of a youth hostel one of those nights. In terms of a job, with no work history, you can do day labor. Personally, I have never been without a home or ever gotten an unemployment check. You could drop me anywhere in the world and I would find friends, food, and shelter.

    Once, at a work release center, I met a cowboy from Eastern Oregon. He said he would have a job in 24 hours. We had double digit unemployment in Eugene. The others from Western Oregon told him no way. He had a job the next day. I suspect that without a drug problem, most folks could find help.

    If you do not have social skills, a work history, and a clear record, you may not fair as well. My sons have been the same way in terms of getting work as I have. They can both get jobs with little effort. One of them has issues keeping a job, though.


  24. Enkill_Eridos said

    I did not have that problem as I do have some skills dealing with marine equipment. I was homeless after a no name storm made my house unlivable, and I was reliant on a homeless shelter for about no more than a month. I quickly found a shrimp boat to work and live on and from there I got my own residence. And the one time I ever went to jail was in Punta Gorda for not paying court fees. And I had to go to Miss Judy’s for three weeks and saw that shelter did a lot more good than the sally has. Now if you were a drug addict or alcoholic the sally offers a program to get you in a 12-step a job and housing. But that is only for those cases, if you just had bad luck in a place with few friends that can house you, then you are SOL. And the problem with day labor is that IF you get on a work ticket. Most day labor places favor regulars than first-timers. There is good reason for this and do not say this practice is wrong but it is hard. But the purpose of my comment was not to bash the sally because they do have programs for housing for felons that have no where else to go and the drug and alcohol addicted to clean up. They do good on that respect. But if you are just unlucky and your trailer gets trashed in an unnamed storm, leaving you with nothing but a rucksack and a sleeping bag and few clothes. You have to survive on your own with very little than your own talents and skills to help you. There is no programs for that situation, I have looked when I was in it. The sally didn’t help no homeless shelter helped. The ministry Church without Walls or something, Put me in touch with a couple of people and on Saturday they fed us breakfast. That helped a little but I had to improvise my own shelter at times, this was all because I did not have a substance abuse problem. If I lied and said ya I was addicted to crack or an alcoholic then I could have had a roof over my head a lot faster. But I will not lie, cheat, or steal to survive. It does not match my ethical code.


  25. It sounds like you could have used a social worker to do some referrals to the proper resources. I take it you had no family or friends at the time.


  26. Well the social worker that I had through the VA helped a bit. And I did get into programs in the VA that helped. But other than that at the tim I had no support system.


  27. princessxxx said

    well, i was homeless as a direct result of my illness.

    kay, sarasota tries, but you are right, the cops in SRQ are out of hand.

    SRQ built a nice modern facility, but stupid city planning, they should not have put it so close to beautiful downtown sarasota.

    kay, i went to an ACLU meeting last month, (liberal poisoning) and there was a young black women that the cops beat up in front of her 4 year old son.

    and e_e, st pete, what the cops did their with tent city. slicing the tents up with razors and destroying their food. that was unbelievable.

    also, social workers finally hooked me up with a halfway house, but it was mainly for AA & NA and of course, princess in an AA Meeting, …well, you can imagine…hahahahahahah.


  28. The greatest deterence to police abuse is the video camera. When I saw a cop pulling over a Black in a car just outside the “French Quarter” on the East end, he looked like an Irish wolfhound on the tail of a crippled deer. I pulled out my video camera and and you could see him putting on the brakes in his facial features and slowing down his pace.

    The guy did have several tickets coming to him for equipment failures, but he was no felon. He issued a ticket and you could see he could not get out of there fast enough.

    Since then, I have thought all officers should have a camera on them to record what they do – regardless of the truth in whose favor it turned out.


  29. kay~ms said

    P, I’m not against civil liberties. I read about a gay man who said he wasn’t going to pay taxes until he was afforded his equal rights and I agree with him. Although it would leave more taxes for the rest of us to pay which would not be pleasant. But I don’t believe that the goverment should discriminate so I believe he has every right to refuse to pay his taxes.

    Just like the man in the military who is getting deployed and refusing to go because our commander in chief is not legally our president because he was not born in this country or at least he is refusing to provide proof that he was born here… so until he does this man has every right to refuse his orders I believe.

    You are so right about Sarasota’s city planning abilities. They also messed up our chances to have the Red Sox spring training here. That would have done so much for this city but they really dropped the (base)ball on that one…

    I love this city, I’ve lived here all my life and I like to see progress but there are so many people with money here that are trying to control the progress because they think that they know what is best for the city. Growth equals jobs but they don’t care about that it seems because they don’t have to work.

    Here’s an interesting article from today’s news about the guy that was beaten up by the police. The city has actually made the situation worse by making a deal to pay him $400 so he won’t sue, he signed the agreement in english which he does not speak… so now the FBI is involved…at the request of our city Manager ” to make things more transparent”. I think that’s the only thing they can do if they want to salvage their reputation, what is left of it anyway.


    The video is pretty convicting of the officer. Yesterday there was an article about two women, one a previous officer in another state, who witnessed the cop beating this guy. Their account does not match up with what the officer put in his report of course.

    I hope there is an investigation by the FBI.. I hate corruption and I think this town is corrupt.. from the Judges in the court house to the former Chief of Police (under investigation) to the officers on the street.


  30. johnlloydscharf said

    So, if I get stopped in an airport because I look like a Pakistani, then I do not have to pay taxes? If someone somewhere does not like long hair and does not hire me for a job, I do not have to pay taxes?


  31. kay~ms said

    I was thinking more along the lines of if a person is not allowed by the government to claim certain tax breaks even though they are in theory fullfilling the requirements to qualify for them then that is blatant government discrimination… these people are being forced to pay more taxes because of who they choose to share their life with. That’s the only example I can think of at the moment but I think it suffices as an argument to your point. Your examples are subjective. They are harder to prove. The tax example is more obvious and clear. We will never be able to completely eliminate civil offenses because they can be so subjective so in most cases it’s not practical to say that anyone who’s civil liberties are violated shouldn’t have to pay taxes. But in this instance I think it is a clear case and a person would be justified to take a stand. It is a direct offense by the government of whom you are paying your taxes to.


  32. Kay, you don’t have to buy into every anti-Obama furphy.



  33. kay~ms said

    Oh I knew that was gong to get someone’s attention…Then Betty, why won’t he provide his birth certificate? Why has he spent so much money to avoid doing so??

    Daily Devotional
    Date: 06/23/09 – 26 days ago.
    Category: SIN
    I have a Birth Certificate and if You were Born in the USA You Do Too

    (Job 24:16; Psalms 90:8; Ephesians 5:12)

    I have a birth certificate. If you were born in the United States, you do too, or you can get one. Why can’t the leader of the free world, the President of the United States, produce his birth certificate??? The White House and the media have done a masterful job at painting anyone who asks this legitimate question as a whackjob, a conspiracy nutcase, someone who has lost their mind. The fact is, even FOX News, most every conservative radio host who makes their living hammering King Obama, are too afraid to talk about this issue.

    Let me cut through all of the hype and break this down for you. It is actually a very simple issue anyone can understand. To be the President of the United States, you must be born in this country. Anyone born in the United States can get a birth certificate that details all of the pertinent information surrounding his or her birth. Everyone who is reading this today who was born in the United States either has a birth certificate or you can get one. Understanding that, why does President Obama refuse to produce his birth certificate?

    Over the past year, there have been hundreds of legal challenges to whether President Obama was actually born in the United States or in Kenya, making him ineligible to be our President. What initially caught my attention was the fact that the Obama Presidential Campaign, and now the Obama Administration, has spent well over a million dollars fighting these legal challenges to his eligibility. Why would you spend $1 when the whole issue can be settled by simply producing your birth certificate????

    I am not going to take time to go into all of the legal challenges or recount the incredible amount of time and effort many people have spent on this issue. My friend Joe Farrah of WorldNetDaily has been the leader in the reporting and investigation of this issue. You can go to http://www.wnd.com and find dozens of articles on this issue, where investigative reporters have been to Kenya, been to the hospitals in Hawaii, and have been blocked by Obama’s people at every turn.

    The bottom line is that years ago when President Obama ran for the Senate, he produced a short form “Certificate of Live Birth” that at the time was never challenged. This is NOT an actual birth certificate, but a document anyone can get, even if they were born in a foreign country. His actual long-form birth certificate is the document anyone born in the United States has and can produce, and the document Obama has REFUSED to provide. The link below give you a very good description of the difference between the two documents. http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=101483

    The Bible has much to say about secrets, secret sins, and my whole reason for dealing with this today is from the stand point that those things you do in secret, will one day be seen in the light of day. That goes for me, you, and even the President! My heart is breaking this morning, because I know that many who read these words this morning are hurting because of secret sins in your life. To those in your life, everything looks wonderful. Many envy you. Most see you as a person who is strong in the Lord and a pillar of faith. You are a business person, a mom, dad, son, daughter, or pastor. You serve God in many ways. You love God. You have put your faith in Christ.

    But there is sin in your life. Secret sin. Sin nobody else sees. Sin that possibly has been part of your life for many, many years. Sin that you have swept into a back closet so nobody else would know about it. SIN THAT IS KEEPING YOU FROM THE JOY, PEACE, AND ABUNDANCE THAT GOD HAS PROMISED FOR YOUR LIFE.

    What is this sin? For each person that is different. For some it is alcohol. The two beers each night, the scotch after work, have become so much a part of your life that even though you are not classified as an alcoholic, you know and God knows, that you HAVE to have it. THAT is a problem. Some of you woke up this morning after not sleeping well because you are deeply involved in gambling. Possibly you owe a local bookie for sports bets. Or maybe it is those lottery tickets you HAVE to buy each day. Or maybe it is the local casino down the road that you just can’t stay out of. Just as bad are those who play the markets each day, not investing for the future, but looking for the daily “hit.”

    Others of you are dealing with sexual sins. Pornography is the easiest since it can be just you and your movies, or magazines, or computer. Possibly you have evolved past the solo stage and it involves other people. Still others of you are secretly involved in drugs, legal and illegal. Actually, those who use prescribed drugs to get that “high” outside of the medicinal purposes it was designed for, is a MUCH larger problem than the more publicized illegal drug problem. However, that is a multi-billion dollar a year industry so SOMEBODY is buying all that cocaine, pot, heroin, meth, ecstasy, and the rest. Still others of you are involved in the sin of greed. Making money is more than just a way to support yourself and family, it is an obsession. Money is your drug of choice. And of course, there are a multitude of other sins people are secretly involved in.

    You see my friend, the Bible says that the enemy comes to kill, steal, and destroy. That verse is talking about believers. How does that happen? We know that if we give our lives to Christ by faith we are saved. The enemy can’t have our souls. But he can destroy us from being the productive servants God has called us to be. The easiest way to do that is to get us trapped in sin. Sin is like cancer. It starts out almost innocently. But it grows and spreads. Very few who are involved in gambling, don’t drink. Very few involved in drugs are not involved in sexual sins. Very few are tied to just one secret sin.

    As a matter of fact, once you let sin into your life, and practice sin, it opens the door for other sins. You see, at some point it doesn’t matter any longer. The great justifier satan says, “Oh well, you already are this deep, what harm could a little more sin do?” This my friend is the trap. It is like quicksand. You get in, and get deeper, and deeper, and deeper, and getting out becomes harder, and harder.

    I realize that this word today has made some turn their computer off, some have hit the delete button, and others are sitting right now in tears. You see, the Holy Spirit is talking to YOU! God is speaking to you this moment louder than He could if he were on a public address system at a stadium. He is talking to YOU and saying READ THIS . . . THIS IS YOU!!! The Prodigal Son came from a Godly, good home. I think when he went out, he was a good person. I think like many brothers and sisters in Christ, he simply allowed sin to enter into his life, and it ate him up to the point of near destruction. But in the end, he knew when he hit the bottom, there was only one place to go . . . HOME to his father!

    Were there consequences for his sin? YES! His inheritance was gone, he suffered the damage of the horrible experiences he encountered. He probably had some health issues. But the point was, when he “came to himself” he went home! MY WORD FOR YOU TODAY IS THAT GOD LOVES YOU. GOD CARES ABOUT YOU. NO AMOUNT OF SIN CAN EVER STOP HIM FROM LOVING YOU. READ 1 JOHN 1:9. YOU DON’T HAVE TO CONTINUE IN YOUR SIN, BUT YOU CAN STOP TODAY AND LET GOD HELP YOU. THE CHOICE IS YOURS. AT THE END OF THE ROAD YOU ARE ON IS DESTRUCTION. GOD IS THE FLAG MAN WITH THE ORANGE VEST SAYING . . . STOP NOW!!!!

    I love you and care about you so much. I don’t know what if anything will come of the fact President Obama has refused to produce his birth certificate. If he was born here, I can’t understand why it is an issue. I do know that over time, God will sort it out. I know that many of you are hurting today because of secret sin. I wish I was able to help make it all okay by snapping my fingers. I would but that is not reality. Sin didn’t start overnight, didn’t occur overnight, and the effects of sin won’t go away overnight. As a matter of fact, they will be with you the rest of your life. Sadly, that is one of sin’s by-products. But you can have victory over sin today! Today can be the first day of victory over sin in your life. But the first step MUST BE YOURS!!!

    Here is some practical advice for you to follow if you really want victory. You are in a battle. To win a battle, you must have a battle plan. Pray, sit down and let God give you a plan that you can faithfully work each day. Then, you need someone you can be accountable to on a daily basis. You can’t win this fight alone, you need someone to stand with you, and to hold you accountable. Lastly, you need the strength you can only get from God. That comes from your daily relationship through prayer and the Word, from being in church, from finding ways to serve the Lord. All of this working together will help you overcome this battle and see victory.

    I will be praying for you today. There is victory in this life, victory for Jesus. The biggest trap we as Christians must avoid are those secret sins that will eat away at us from the inside. Destroy us from the inside. Make us virtually useless in serving God. Never forget, our purpose in this life is to serve and glorify Him with our lives. The easiest way for the enemy to stop us from fulfilling that purpose is to get us entangled in sin in our lives. We can live FREE from sin if we choose to. That is what God is calling you to do today. Turn from your secret sin, and turn fully, 100% to Him.

    Again, know that I am praying for you. I can’t do this for you, YOU have to do it. But know that I am here praying for you, standing with you for victory over the sin in your life. God will strengthen you, embolden you, and help you see victory. The first step, however, is yours. The prodigal son had to go home before he could get victory. Bury your pride since God already knows the full story, and go to Him today. My prayers are with you.

    In His love and service, Your friend and brother in Christ, Bill Keller


  34. kay~ms said

    I commented Betty but it’s awaiting moderation and since it seems that I have been recently denied access (sensorship of the liberal kind) I can’t approve it…

    maybe this one will go thru…


  35. It’s alright Kay, I read it: did you read any of the info at that link? How about:

    It looks pretty clear cut to me. I see you slipped in an entire devotional as well.


  36. How do we know he is that baby mentioned on the birth certificate?


    OF COURSE, for every source on the Net that claims Obama IS a citizen, there are likely two that claim he is not. Personally, it does not make one iota of difference if he were an alien from another planet. If he were replaced by Biden, Chairwoman Pelosi would STILL be running this country.


  37. How do we know that anybody is anybody?


  38. You guys have certainly led interesting lives. I feel very dull and suburban by comparison.It’s that socialistic welfare state that has saved me from an interesting life a few times, even, ironically, under a Liberal government.


  39. In this case, Betty, there is a mitochondrial DNA test that would confirm if Obama is a child of his mother’s family. His mother, grandmother, maternal uncles, and even maternal cousins have the same DNA.

    Family Tree DNA will do a full sequence for $449 per person. So, there would be a $898 minimum for the confirmation. If his mother’s DNA were available, though, you could have the autosomal tests done that include 24 markers for $257 each. I have had all these tests and more.


  40. Oh, and Betty, Wikipedia claims:
    In the US, liberalism is usually understood to refer to social liberalism, as contrasted with conservatism. American liberals endorse regulation for business, a limited social welfare state, and support broad racial, ethnic, sexual and religious tolerance, and thus more readily embrace Pluralism, and affirmative action. In Europe, on the other hand, liberalism is characterized by beliefs in free trade and limited government; it is not only contrasted with conservatism and Christian Democracy, but also with socialism and social democracy. In some countries, European liberals share common positions with Christian Democrats.

    So, “Liberal govenment” do you refer to.


  41. kay~ms said

    Betty, did you read Bill’s commentary? Especially the part where the Obama administration has spent over a million dollars to fight this issue when all he has to do is produce his birth certificate?

    I suspect that the efforts by the White House and the media, who as Bill has stated ” have done a masterful job at painting anyone who asks this legitimate question as a whackjob, a conspiracy nutcase, someone who has lost their mind” includes the links that you posted.

    I think you are being very gullible and niave. The question still remains.. why doesn’t he settle this by producing his BIRTH CERTIFICATE??


  42. iflay said

    It looks like the birth certificate has been autenticated and there was even an announcement of birth in the Hawaii newspaper. Why is so much time being spent on this. If McCain won the election would there be as much cover? He was born in Panama Canal zone. Even if in a military base with American parents, it was still not technically American soil. One of the qualifications is you have to be a “natural-born” citizen correct?
    Like the terminator from Austria, I am not qualified also because I was born in Switzerland. Johnlloydscharf is right. It does not matter if he was an alien because there are other powers that will be calling shots also, even if Biden had to take over. Let us consider another scenario, like if MaCain won and Palin had to take over the presidency.
    Thank you all.


  43. kay~ms said

    Hi Iflay, Obama has very agressive liberal agendas… I don’t think that Biden does. That right there is a big difference from a Christian standpoint.

    I can sympathize with the men who are receiving deployment orders from a man who may not even legally be our Commander in Chief. This very least and basic requirement should be met in such a serious matter. Let alone, the issue of Obama’s loyalty considering he is believed to be the anointed one of the Muslim faith by over a billion people. Is this affecting his judgement / decision making?

    I would demand a clear resolve to this issue if I was so directly affected.


  44. Biden is every bit as aggressive a socialist as Obama and he is as much pro-abortion as well.

    However, Kay, wherever Chairwoman Pelosi and President Obama disagree, Pelosi will win and Senate Leader Reid will back her to the hilt.


  45. Kay: I am looking at this from the outside, but as far as I can see from reading those links I sent you, which aren’t aggressively left wing, and looking around a bit more, he has produced his birth certificate and it has been verified. It seems rather sad to me that people on your side of the political divide won’t accept his election and fight his policies as policies, but just keep throwing up these absurd smears.

    The Taliban don’t seem to think he is the anointed one, but then the only ones who think he is are the internet rumour mongers. Effectively they seek to punish Obama, not for his policies or acts, but for having any kind of Muslim background.

    The idea that the president should take a DNA test to satisfy the demands of people who won’t accept clear documentary evidence which they would accept in a heartbeat from anyone else is pretty extreme: I though respecting the office was very important. In any case the nutosphere would just start saying the test results were faked and circulating factoids which others would circulate without checking or questioning.I would say it is those who spread these smears who undermine the confidence of your troops; most of whom, however, I imagine are sensible practical types not so easily spooked. God I hope so…….

    There are plenty of political leaders I have violently opposed and disliked, but I wouldn’t give credence to every half baked rumour about them just to make myself feel better.What happened to Occam’s razor?

    John, in Australia the Liberal party is basically Tory: and under your nation’s little chum John Howard operated for ten years a strange combination of right wing anti-union Little Australia poujadism and a massive expansion of middle-class welfare funded by the mining boom funded in its turn by China’s runaway expansion. Strange but electorally brilliant.

    Kay since you are politically charged I think you should define yourself politically: ‘a Christian standpoint’ could cover any political view. How about ‘from a conservative evangelical standpoint’? More wordy, but clearer.


  46. Betty, the US has the largest DNA database in the world. The President is the most important elected position in the world. I am thinking a buccal swab is not a high expectation from the President. I am more than willing to share my DNA information. In fact, it is available at mitosearch.org and ysearch.org.

    In regard to the term Tory, to me a back shooter in the Revolutionary War that killed my ancestor, John Little. My family has had a great distaste for government interference. John Howard would likely be defined as a Conservative in the US.
    Having seen what labor unions have done to the US in the past 20 years, I am with him. Given that I was a union steward and have some insight into how they fail to represent the interests of workers, that is saying something.

    My step-father was in a trade union. My mother was a union local president. I have seen trade unions forcing jobs overseas. I have seen how the unions have failed to represent workers in wage/hour disputes that were won decades ago. I also have seen them fail in the area of worker safety.

    The reason our auto industry failed is because we pay auto workers to do nothing and do so at a rate of twice the rate mechanics and body repair workers earn. When the auto industry crashed, the house building crashed in the Midwest.

    The either of the terms of “conservative,” or “evangelical” are loaded and far less descriptive than the one Kay used, in my not so humble opinion – as you have so pointed out.


  47. kay~ms said

    Betty, all 3 links that you posted are the same… from the same source, which while you say “aren’t aggressively leftwing” they look very much like government sponsored /affiliated links.

    Please read this paragraph from Bill’s commentary, because it appears that you must have missed this part:

    The bottom line is that years ago when President Obama ran for the Senate, he produced a short form “Certificate of Live Birth” that at the time was never challenged. This is NOT an actual birth certificate, but a document anyone can get, even if they were born in a foreign country. His actual long-form birth certificate is the document anyone born in the United States has and can produce, and the document Obama has REFUSED to provide. The link below give you a very good description of the difference between the two documents. http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=101483

    The photographs on your links show a “certification of live birth” which as Bill explains is a short form document that can be easily obtained by anyone. The actual long form Certificate of Birth, which anyone born in the United States has, has not been produced by Obama.

    click on the link and see what the actual differences are.

    You want to call this an “absurd smear” but did you get all of the information before making such a claim? No… I understand that absurd claims exist but like I have stated earlier on this blog..I trust Bill Keller’s judgement and his information. Please don’t try to make us look like we don’t care about the welfare of our service men and women by questioning our president’s legitimacy. That’s the kind of thing that would fall under that catagory of “low down diry tactics” (of the liberal kind).

    The question still remains… why is Obama having to spend so much money to defend this issue when all he has to do is provide his ACTUAL birth certificate.

    You can go to http://www.wnd.com and find dozens of articles on this issue, where investigative reporters have been to Kenya, been to the hospitals in Hawaii, and have been blocked by Obama’s people at every turn.


  48. kay, you lived in SRQ all your life? that is great, i think sarasota is beautiful. siesta key beach is one of the highest rated beaches in the country. and i love the artsy-fartsiness of SRQ. The Selby gardens & library, the Ringling Museum.
    anyway, you and i are practically neighhbors, we should meet and have ice cream on a bench some day at 5 points and see how long it takes for the cops to run us off. hahhahaha.
    (oh, and my brother-in-law is head chef at marina jack. so after the police mace us we can go eat lobsters.) p.s. don’t bring brother keller.

    well, i knew it would not be long before the obama birth certificate would come up as i have been watching a few of bkellers shows. that seems to be his new agenda. one of us,(how about you) should make a post about that.

    anyway, homelessness is caused by a variety of reasons. i think mental illness is the #1. drugs & alcohol. financial ruin, and then there are those that are just plain bums.
    the saddest to see were the families with children. more can be done to help these people.

    Iflay, having Palin as prez is one of the scariest things i could imagine. the woman is insane.


  49. I am certain a conservative woman is scary to the Democrats. They want to be the first to elect a woman to that office. She has been mocked,attacked, slighted, and abused from day one. They said and did things they would be torn apart about if they said it about Obama. The things done against her on the Net that are pure trash show how the socialists are dead set on controling the govenment at all costs, even to the point of faking a birth certificate for Obama.

    However, I would not accuse Fact Check of being “liberal.” The foundation that created it is part of a private university and the founders are/were Reagan Republicans.


  50. “Kay: I am looking at this from the outside, ..”



  51. princessxxx said

    palin has proven she is not capable of leading our country, or alaska for that matter.
    had she won, we could have renamed it the “White Trash House”


  52. Princess, you know nothing about the US, Alaska, or Palin.


  53. Getting back to the topic, San Francisco has been “mean” since HashBury of the ’60.


  54. dorian said

    i can’t begrudge nancy anything. after all she always gave us good candy every halloween. lived in the same neighborhood.
    anyway, here’s something for our swiss guest, iflay. this is funnier than the snl skit. this shows how much tougher sarah is than any of them put together:


  55. I think you eat too many prunes, Dorian:


  56. kay~ms said

    You’re so funny P… yes, we should do that sometime but I have to tell you that you still do scare me a little bit :)… can you blame me? Mickey Mouse still gives me the creeps when I look at him 🙂 I think you do have a knack for that stuff and you know that Stephen King lives here in Sarasota… just go knock on his door and introduce yourself… can’t hurt… here’s his house… (wow)


    I love that you appreciate Sarasota so much. We do have some of the best beaches… just last night a friend was showing me on his cell phone a list of the top ten places with the best beaches. Hawaii was first and Sarasota was second. Lido was the one I always went to growing up… it was closer.


  57. kay~ms said

    That’s great that your brother in law is a head chief at Marina Jacks… do you get any discounts? That is a beautiful restuarant. My (ex) friends step father did the remodeling for it. X friend because she was a narcissist and sometimes very mean / abusive to me… but she always remembered my birthday before anyone else and always gave me a card (and did other nice things for me)… Narcissists are very complex people sometimes… anyway, that’s another story..

    Speaking of art.. I’m sure you’ve seen the “Unconditional Surrend” statue in front of Marina Jacks… what’s your opinion of it? Some absolutely hate it, saying it’s not art, and others want it to stay… personally, I like it… it’s a lot more interesting than some of the other “art” they’ve displayed on the bayfront.



  58. dorian said

    c’mon john, you can’t tell me the palin skit wasn’t well done! i love how tough she was. ..”who wants to go polar bear huntin’!” hehehe


  59. princessxxx said

    kay, i loved that statue.
    and it was ‘total’ art.
    is it still up? i thought they had taken that down.

    we used to go there a lot and take pictures of ourselves looking up the nurses dress.
    i know, juvenile, but, hey, who ever accused me of not being juvenile.

    that statue drew so much attention. SRQ always has the big art display at the waterfront, some good, most not. but unconditional surrender topped them all. lots of controversy. most people loved it, except for the artistic elite. they think they are so cerebral. not everything has to be sol lewitt.

    it would be another stupid mistake of the city if they get rid of it. it couldn’t have been more perfectly located.


  60. Dorian, that skit was droll and ill conceived as well as sort of that normal inbred NYC mentality. I have seen more cosmopolitan people in a town of 600 than there are in NYC. The icons of coming out of that environment cannot relate to anyone outside of it. They can go to Outer Mongolia without ever understanding a mindset outside of urbane. You laugh at their crap because you think it does not stink and reek of partisanship. It does and you do because you eat it up.

    Had all that crap been aimed at Obama before the election, you would have a power whine going about it, even now.

    As is, there are few Republicans in govenment… So, not only is Obama’s popularity going down, but he is just now starting to get a taste of what it is like to having his policies and statements mocked.


  61. kay~ms said

    They did take it down but then they brought it back surprisingly. I’m trying to post a link to an updated article (and a better picture that shows everyone who hasn’t seen it how big it actually is) but wordpress keeps rejecting it… won’t even put it in awaiting moderation.

    Here’s the search link info…

    Unconditional Surrender in Sarasota Florida
    SARASOTA – The sailor kiss could be coming back — for good this … Unconditional Surrender Surrender Statue Photo Sarasota Florida. About Startup Florida

    No, I don’t dance… I wasn’t blessed with that gene that doesn’t let you feel self conscience. So ironic since the man of my dreams is a musician… that’s also another story… but I do appreciate music, much like Dorian…

    I haven’t heard from Wendyee in a while… I should email her. I’m surprised she hasn’t been stopping by.

    PS.. I have to confess… I’ve looked up her dress too… 🙂


  62. dorian said

    hey, i loved the other skits satirizing the other party as well, as long as they were good. comedy is comedy. droll is good sometimes. like some of monty python’s. then there’s young frankenstein. i haven’t seen that in a while, maybe i’ll watch it again.


  63. princessxxx said

    i’m surprised they brought it back, too. such an uproar over it originally.

    i go to SRQ on a regular basis, CAT scans at SRQ memorial. but i usually just take bee ridge off of 75 down to osprey and then to waldemere. next time i go, i will stop by the waterfront.

    so kay, maybe one day we do meet. ice cream and marina jack, then we can go have our picture taken looking up the nurses dress.

    dorian & betty will be sooooooooo jealous.


  64. OH GOOD DORIAN…. Then you will love this as much as I do:


  65. dorian said

    i will be. especially if you’re you’re both eating ice cream. last sunday was national ice cream day, i wanted to post something about that but i couldn’t from my pda. best ice cream in san francisco, mitchell’s ice cream. princess, kay and e_e, neighbors! you should get e_e in the picture too!


  66. dorian said

    funny but not as funny as anne coulter. any on my ex-neighbor nancy? i like skits on her and sarah the best.


  67. princessxxx said

    yes, it is quite odd that kay, e_e and i all live within the “National Hub of Meanness”.
    certainly that is just a coincidence. or is it?


  68. dorian said

    kay, we don’t know why you’re having trouble posting. you never did before, right? maybe you can create another i.d, and we can start from scratch. i think that would be faster. are you checking your yahoo email? i’ll email you there…


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