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news and things sacred and irreverent put together by opinionated people.

the race factor

Posted by dorian on September 16, 2009

A Very Credible Source Speaks out. No-nonsense talk from ex- President Jimmy Carter.nobody wants to pull the race card from the white house. but a peanut farmer from Georgia tells it like it is….

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145 Responses to “the race factor”

  1. obama the antichrist said

    jimmy carter is a dem like obama plus he has the same approval rating of Bush.

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  2. Princessxxx said

    i think jimmy carter is a real christian, and a ufo enthusiast.
    even though carters presidency wasn’t the finest of hours for the US,
    he will never be the horrid president that Bush was.

    carter saying that as a southerner he sees the racism, i totally agree.
    i hear it when i go to the local market or at restaurants every day.
    it is kinda scary, but more sad than anything.

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  3. dorian said

    all else aside, what he says here is veritable. he’s speaking from life experience. racism is something most people would rather not discuss. but it’s a fact of life, and a way of life in some places. washington, in not addressing the blatant disrespect that the mob is throwing out at the current president, has been too careful about the race card thing. the intention is to preserve some dignity and decorum for the president’s office, but their civility is encouraging more bad behavior from the hatemongers. that’s what i don’t like about the ‘liberals’, they are too humane for their own good sometimes. why not raise the bar and get the riot control machines out, pile them up and make soylent green wafers already!!

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  4. obama the antichrist said

    see what if i used George Bush to discuss something. you would tear me apart! but you are using someone who has THE SAME APPROVAL RATING as bush. now racism is a problem. but the blatant disrespect has nothing to do with race. the signs “the mob” hold say nothing about race. and the civility that you are talking does not exisit. didnt obama call kayne a “jacka$$”? is that the decorum you are talking about? obama was never provoked in anyway he was asked a question.

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  5. princessxxx said

    I WILL TRY THIS AGAIN.
    well, just like chelsea said, all of america can unite in the fact that kanye is indeed a jacka$$.

    also i heard that bush was ripping into palin about her inexperience.
    so i can agree with him on that,
    but in his case i think it was a “takes one to know one” type of situation.

    i hope you don’t think i’m trying to tear you apart, ota. i’m just f’ing with you like i do everybody else. dorian included.

    also i can be just as rude as any republican and i take great pride in that.

    i’m from the south.

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  6. dorian said

    ota, i’m sure you’ve seen the mob tea parties with their hand made posters or maybe not – some of them blatantly racist. no time to look for them now but they’re around.

    what do you think w. would be saying in private conversations if there was a hidden microphone somewhere?…jack**s is pretty lame. now if there was some good cuss words, now we’re talkin’! hillary was my choice for presidential candidate. not obama.
    but nobody in this day and age deserves this much animosity and disrespect. it’s obvious they just want to invalidate him. a black man as the head of state of this nation? unacceptable to these people. he has been called muslim, communist, socialist, nazi, gay, terrorist, illegal immigrant, monkey in the white house, etc., etc..you know the secret service is on high alert with all the loonies out there with their threats.

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  7. dorian said

    p- where is this movie line from: “…lies, all lies!”
    hint: “..he used me as bait!”

    soylent green made me think about this.

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  8. princessxxx said

    i dunno, Passion of the Christ”?

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  9. princessxxx said

    you’re not talking about that snuff film i made with glenn beck and ann coulter?

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  10. obama the antichrist said

    none of the examples you said dealt with race. just saying. and gay illegal immigrant muslim terrorist and nazi are extreme but other than that its pretty on point.

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  11. dorian said

    Toby Harnden
    Published: 8:45PM BST 16 Sep 2009
    telegraph.uk

    “The election of Barack Obama was supposed to be the bright new dawn of a post-racial America. His swearing in on the steps of Washington’s Capitol building seemed to represent a historical watershed, a full stop at the end of a chapter in United States history that included segregation and slavery.

    So what has gone wrong with America since that frigid January day? Turn on the news now and we are assailed with reports of disgracefully racist placards being carried at anti-Obama rallies nominally billed as opposition to health-care reform…”

    remember these?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4544599n

    so much more. just turn on the news or go to youtube or google ‘new racism in america’ and you have your racists out and about since obama started campaigning and after he was elected. ota you just want to make me work. you know i’m lazy. and i know you ain’t blind. now let’s plan our halloween party and adkob and princess and betty’s birthdays!

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  12. dorian said

    P – the line was from ‘suddenly last summer’ and it was said by aunt vi (katharine hepburn) when liz taylor’s character (forgot the name) told the truth about how cousin sebastian really died.
    he was mauled and eaten by hungry brazilian slumdogs. cousin sebastian used liz as bait to lure men. notty notty.

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  13. kay~ms said

    okay.. let’s try it this way…

    When Obama started he had a 70% approval rating. Now it’s around 40% I think. So does that mean that those people who did aprove of Obama, and now don’t, have become racists?

    A 70% approval rating SHOULD pretty much clear up the ridiculous assertion that anyone who is against Obama’s policy is racist. It SHOULD be pretty clear that it has to do with the actions he’s taken as president.

    It really is just simple math here.

    Dorian, you’ve provided two examples of people who are racist. Again, really you just have to do the math. In a crowd of thousands, how many had the racist posters? If there was a crowd where the majority did have racist posters, how many of these crowds were there in all of the crowds of protesters?

    I watch the cable news shows and these posters were in the minority. These people are the MINORITY. There are ALWAYS going to be groups like this no matter who is president. Why are you harping on the insignificant and dimented MINORITY?? An insignificant and demented minority that EVERY president had. What is seems like to me is that it’s just easier for liberals to point the finger in this instance and you all are taking full advantage of it (playing the race card). It’s either that or you are the ones who cannot get past the color of his skin.

    And again, Bush has been called all kinds of names too. And he’s been blatantly disrespected also.

    why can’t you all just get off this and focus on the issues. And you brought up the birth place issue and also the death panel issue as if anyone who talks about that is just as guilty. These are different situations / issues. Issue that you continue to critisize people for bringing up or questioning yet, you can’t argue the very valid points presented. You gave no arguments when I brought up valid points here but you still critisize me and others for asking questions and wanting some answers. If Obama proponents would provide valid arguments or answers, those issues would go away. It’s that simple.

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  14. kay~ms said

    My previous post is awaiting moderation but I wanted to add…

    I just watched Glenn Beck and he echoed many of my points concerning the racist accusations of Jimmy Carter and others. One thing I didn’t mention that GB did.. the REASON that Dems and liberals are playing the race card … because they are unable to successfully defend the critisisms of Obama’s policies and healthcare bill so they try to divert the attention onto something else (duh!…I must be getting rusty).

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  15. Anne said

    Um, let’s see, the guy who shouted out “You Lie” during the President’s address to Congress is Joe Wilson (R-SC). He was a member of Sons of Confederate Veterans, he has defended the flying of the Confederate flag over the State House, he criticized the out-of-wedlock daughter of Strom Thurmond and Strom’s black maid for coming forward, saying that even if her story was true, she should not have revealed it because “it’s a smear” on Thurmond’s image and was a way to “diminish” Thurmond’s legacy. President Carter said that people are inclined to show less respect to the office of the President when their racist attitudes come up against the fact that our President is African-American. Looking at the racist images displayed by the crowds at the later McCain-Palin rallies, by the crowds at the Don’t Give Us Health Care protests (including white face, witchdoctor, and Hitler images of Obama), and all over the internet and in emails, it’s ingenuous for the press to treat Carter’s remark as though it only applied to Joe Wilson’s outburst, or to treat Wilson’s outburst as in any way normal for such an address. You want to see what idiocy the Republicans are stirring up, take a look at today’s news: http://www.bvblackspin.com/2009/09/16/black-army-reservist-attacked-by-racist-in-front-of-7-year-old-d/

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  16. Anne said

    And BTW, Kay, I don’t like the current health care bill because it’s useless for the working people I know who are uninsured – they will be fired because their employers will not be able to afford the mandatory payments they will have to make when the employee registers for the mandatory health insurance (to avoid the mandatory fine if they don’t!).

    The Backus monstrosity of a bill is INSANE, it seems to be designed to drive marginally-employed people onto welfare, which will only last a few months now (since Bill Clinton’s revamp of the system) — so then what, we will have people who formerly had jobs starving and living in the streets. It’s literally insane, financially and morally. It would be SO much cheaper in the long run to just bite the bullet, do the full-ride gold-plated health care option for everyone, which would cost $1 trillion over ten years. That’s $100 billion per year; and many sources say that is probably a 60% overestimate: the Kaiser Family Foundation and others who have analyzed the annual cost of the uninsured ALONE (visits to emergency rooms, clearing the bodies off the streets, what-have-you) is $125 billion. So covering them along with the rest of us would actually be cheaper for all of us (not to mention it would be THE RIGHT THING TO DO), which makes sense – have you ever been to an emergency room? It’s MUCH costlier than normal doctor care.

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  17. obama the antichrist said

    the white face is the joker! havent you seen the new batman movie! and the rest of what you said wasnt about race nazi isnt a race last time i check its a political party and witchdoctor isnt a race its a proffesion. as said before the white face is representing the villain the joker from batman.

    do you honestly think the you lie outburst was on race? what logic do have about that? joe wilson was saying what obama said was a lie not because obama is black. if you honestly think it is because he is black you are sadly mistaken. yelling you lie was wrong of him but it wasnt a race thing it was political. joe also apologized and obama accepted lets move on.

    then a website that is called black spin…a little biased dont you think? go for credible news sources! get the facts from studies not from a website that has a header that reads “black voice”. (i am not saying its not credible because it is a black website, a website that says whitespin or conservativespin are also biased)

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  18. Princessxxx said

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  19. Princessxxx said

    kay, glen beck played the race card when he called obama a racist that hated white people, come on. are you serious.

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  20. Hors Service said

    Hey Kay, who brought up the debate about the birth of Obama, his supposedly non-allegiance to the flag, his antipatriotism, or compared him to Hitler?

    Why are you wondering that now, we shouldn’t think that some critics are based on nothing but racism?

    What I’m thankfull of Obama is that he constently avoided the question of the race, and never presented himself as the candidate of the minorities.
    – At the opposite of the french left-side candidate, who accused her detractors of being sexist.

    Of course, the accusation of “racism” isn’t an argument to oppose real consistent arguments.
    But as far as I know, the “death panel” isn’t an argument either.

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  21. princessxxx said

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  22. dorian said

    ota: ‘credible new sources’ is all relative, isn’t it?
    sarah palin and glenn beck are credible to you and kay but not to me. i go outside of the country for more objective news sources.
    the u.k has good online news.

    the state of hawaii’s department of health is not a credible source for the birthers and the washington d.c fire department not a credible source for those who don’t believe that there weren’t 2 million people at the 9/12 mob party. and where was glenn beck anyway? took the money and ran?

    if the approx. 47 million+ uninsured people marched in support of nationalized health care and had a mob party of their own then it would be case closed.

    politics aside, joe the wilson just displayed rude behavior.

    i’m all for biting the bullet, anne, this country needs to get in line with the rest of the industrialized nations and provide its citizens healthcare. it’s not just a privilege – it’s a right.

    any country that can wage war and explore space should be able to take on the responsibility of giving its people medical care when needed.

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  23. dorian said

    thank you , princess!! great find!

    so the scene of the feast was an ancient temple ruin, eh? i guess this wasn’t the part where mrs. venable declared ‘lies! lies!!

    anyway, the liz character just barely escaped lobotomy. woot!

    ‘sebastian and vi, vi and sebastian…’ i’ think i’ll name my next dog sebastian.

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  24. Princessxxx said

    do you know who i would like to see get cannibalized? ….glenn beck…seriously.

    or lobotomized, i don’t care.

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  25. Princessxxx said

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  26. kay~ms said

    great arguments for my point that the racists are the minority and shouldn’t be given the time of day… oh…wait.. there aren’t any arguments.

    Now it appears that Obama is forced to address this issue. Someone please tell me what good this is going to do for him? And for our country? You all have just forced a new issue for Obama to deal with, the only problem is that it can’t be solved by him or the government. People’s personal racist views can only be dealt with within themselves. This is just going to be a hindrence that Obama was obviously trying to avoid. Great job liberals.

    He got elected!! WHERE is the racist problem??

    Anne.. your point is that there are racists, which was also Dorian’s point. I already acknowledged that. Can I ask you both, what now? We all agree there are racists in our country. I mean, did anyone really think that we weren’t going to hear from the racists with our first black president??
    So… what now??? Why are you all bringing up this point? All we can do is identify the bigotry, which the media is doing, and then move on to the issues that we can deal with. Which is what you all don’t want to do it seems.

    Joe Wilson may be a racist. First, All of us are racist to some degree. None of us are perfect. But being racist is not the point here.

    It seems to me that there are two points here…

    first, Joe Wilson disrespected the president. It was addressed… and he acknowledged what he did and apologized. Hopefully it was a sincere apology and that maybe he realizes that POSSIBLY he needs to address some personal issues. But again that is a personal issue that he needs to work out with himself. The government has no control over someone’s personal views. Again, why are we discussing it in regards to the healthcare issue?

    Second, was he right when he said “you lie”? Most believe that he was right. And that is what needs to be addressed. As I understand it, technically he didn’t lie but he was aware of loopholes that would give illegal aliens healthcare anyway. That is the point. So, in a sense, he did lie.

    Taxpayers should be able to decide if we should provide healthcare to illegal aliens. But with Obama’s healthcare bill, it is hidden. And he still expects us to trust him and his bill when we discover things like this?

    Obama’s admin has under estimated the cost of the cash for clunkers program (it cost double the amount I believe) and also the cost of the stimulus plan which I believe I heard cost 3 times as much as estimated. So how can we know that his estimates for the healthcare plan are accurate? But see…if liberals and Dems have their way, we won’t ever question anything Obama does and we’ll just find out the hard way what mistakes his plans were.

    Please get real people.

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  27. kay~ms said

    Hors, you said: “Hey Kay, who brought up the debate about the birth of Obama, his supposedly non-allegiance to the flag, his antipatriotism, or compared him to Hitler? Why are you wondering that now, we shouldn’t think that some critics are based on nothing but racism?”

    Are you saying that by my bringing up these points, that it stems from bigotry? I’m not sure what you are saying here.

    All of these things listed are still legitimate concerns. Until he presents his actual birth certificate or the hospital does then it IS a legitimate question. And he did have an issue with the American flag. I still would like to know why he did certain things and I never got any answers so I don’t know either way what to think. And I never said he was another hitler I don’t think anyone has said that. What he IS doing is making socialistic and communistic decisions / policy that can be compared with the same decisions / policy that Hitler made. This is a legitimate comparison!

    That I am questioning these things does not make me a racist. Please tell me that is not what you are saying.

    And oh yes it is.. the death panel is a legitimate argument that no one here wanted to address when I brought it up for debate. There were very valid concerns (until Obama REMOVED that portion from the bill) that the government would be pressuring the elderly to die sooner. It was in the cost control portion of the bill! Come on you guys.. again, get real!

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  28. obama the antichrist said

    ok if CNN or MSNBC brought something to me that has proof i would believe it and i am tired of glenn beck he is a great news anchor but i grow old of all news on tv its all just one sided and accusatory there is no news its just musicless off broadway or less. i look for sources. when i heard glenn and rush bring up the death panel stuff i looked at the bill the source. thats where i like my info the media should try it. and i idolize sarah but she isnt news. i just think she was the best choice for prez (or vice prez) becuase joe biden obama and mccain were all senators and the senate has a very very low approval rating and they arent in good light no matter who the prez is. you could argue that obama was a community organizer. but a community organizer brings people together to do things kinda like a school club. i dont think a school club like leader should be president. palin on the other hand has been leading a state and the country is just a large state so she has had the most experience per say. and there werent 2 million you are right at the march there were about 1 million. police reports help not ABC news. if you look at pictures or watch a home made vid from your parents who went then you know there were that many or more.

    now talking about rights? should clothes food and a home be a right for everyone too? then why not get the people off the streets and into a better quality of life. why not make a law for us to pay for the homeless as well? pay for their homes pay for their food pay for their clothes..arent those a necessary right? shouldnt we spend trillions of dollars to help the ones that are begging? when does it stop? when do people stop saying things are rights. i should have the right to earn $50 an hour working at walmart. why isnt it a right that i should have the best quality of life possible? why isnt it a right that i cant give my kids everything the need? i am in debt why cant the govt pay for my debt? i am prob going to be in debt for the rest of my life because i wanted to go to med school to help people….so why cant the govt pay for my debt? they are wanting to pay for berthas healthcare and she isnt giving anything back to the community? shouldnt it be a right for me to start fresh outta college on level ground with no where to go but up instead of digging myself out of the hole im in? where do the “rights” stop?

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  29. obama the antichrist said

    just felt like posting this 😀

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  30. dorian said

    so how about discussing specifics of the bill starting with what you brought up here. the illegal alien issue on hr320 has been clarified many times over. no, they will not be covered by the bill. this is one of the three most asked questions in every meeting. i have asked this myself in two meetings with lawyers and doctors in the panel. the answer is always no. no matter how many ways the same question is asked, the answer will remain the same. it’s no. so why are people still refuting this? it’s obvious that they will believe what they want to believe anyway, so why not just pass the bill then make amendments later if needed. the hostile minority’s intent is antagonism and disruption. there is no interest in discussion; least of all, progress.

    doug explains:

    Illegals aliens are not covered in health care reform bill
    by Doug Gibson – Aug 19th, 2009

    One of the myths circulating is that illegal aliens will be covered under HR320, the only health care reform “bill” under consideration right now. They aren’t. Section 246 of HR320 says, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

    That seems pretty clear. But critics claim that the provision can’t be enforced and that there is a loophole to allow family members who are illegals to be covered. They also claim that a “non-discrimination clause” in Section 152 would allow illegals to be covered. Not true either. The CNN Political Ticker fact-check blog states “that the first line of that provision forbids discrimination “except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this act.”

    This hasn’t stopped Iowa Republican U.S. Rep. Steve King from releasing a press release falsely claiming HR320 will insure 5.6 million illegals. King claims this will occur because there are not adequate verification measures. Also, a Republican amendment to set a firm verification process was defeated by a partisan vote.

    http://steveking.house.gov

    There are reasons to oppose HR320 — it’s way over 1,000 pages for heck’s sake — and factions in the Democratic Party may start to destroy each other over the controversial public option. As I type I’m listening to Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., bellow at a town hall protester. What a nightmare August for the Democrats.

    But opponents of ‘Obamacare’ need to stop using illegals as a weapon against the bill. They’re not covered in HR320. Anyone saying otherwise is either ignorant or lying.

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  31. dorian said

    one of these years we’ll have progress and be like western europe with government funded university education and healthcare. then you don’t have to be rich or break your back paying for huge student loans, if you want to get an advanced degree.

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  32. obama the antichrist said

    but how much will that really cost us? picture this a little kid is digging a hole to china….now replace the little kid is the US spending habits and the hole is our debt…we just keep on digging and digging and digging…soon our later we will reach china and then we will just want to start another hole.

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  33. obama the antichrist said

    im sorry princess i cant stand olberman he bugs me so much his manner of performing his news is quiet unappealing. (so is glenns i might i add, kinda hard to concentrate when you have a yelling man at you) i am proclaiming here and now…the media is useless now and we must now look for the actual source to use for arguements! media sux.

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  34. kay~ms said

    Here’s an article I came across…

    Was Joe Wilson right? Facts on illegals and healthcare.
    The Republican lawmaker from South Carolina shouted ‘You lie!’ after Obama said in his speech to Congress that illegal immigrants wouldn’t be covered.

    By Peter Grier | Staff writer/ September 10, 2009 edition
    Print thisBuzz up!Email and shareRepublishGet e-mail alertsRSSWashington

    Would illegal immigrants be covered by Democratic healthcare reform proposals, or not?

    That’s an issue that has come up at many town-hall meetings held this summer by US lawmakers. And it hit the airwaves big time on Wednesday night, when Rep. Joe Wilson (R) of South Carolina shouted “You lie!” after President Obama said in his speech to Congress that illegals wouldn’t be covered.

    Representative Wilson later issued an apology, saying he let his emotion get the best of him. But he still said he disagreed with Mr. Obama’s statement.

    Here’s one fact: Obama was correct in asserting that illegal immigrants would be barred from receiving subsidized health benefits by language included in all proposed Democratic reform bills.

    A recent Congressional Research Service (CRS) report that looked at this issue noted, for instance, that to be eligible for help under the House health reform bill, “individuals must be lawfully present in a state in the United States.”

    Furthermore, illegal immigrants would not be required to have health insurance, under the individual-mandate portion of the bills, according to CRS.

    Thus, most fact-checking journalistic organizations deem the assertion that illegals would be covered by the Democratic efforts to be untrue. For instance, PolitiFact, a Pulitzer Prize-winning fact site, gives the statement a “Pants on Fire” negative rating.

    Some Republican members of Congress, however, assert that the Democratic health bills do not contain language calling for verification that recipients of any health subsidies in fact are in the US legally.

    That means that in practice, illegals would get coverage, they say.

    Rep. Edward Whitfield (R) of Kentucky, for instance, told regional reporters in a conference call Thursday that House health reform legislation does not require proof of citizenship to receive benefits.

    Representative Whitfield said that Wilson is usually “low-key” and that it was out of character for him to shout at the president.

    Some attendees at town-hall meetings this summer were concerned by assertions in a widely circulated chain e-mail that page 50 of the House bill guarantees illegals access to health benefits.

    In fact, page 50 contains what PolitiFact calls a “generic non-discrimination clause” that prohibits insurers from denying coverage based on personal characteristics. It says nothing about immigration status.

    Page 143, Section 246, of the House bill specificially states the ineligibility of illegals, notes the fact-checking website.

    • Material from the Associated Press was used in this report.

    Here are some comments to this article..

    Ruthe West | 09.10.09

    Regarding the illegal alien access to health care – Your interpretation is as disingenuous as that of Obama and the Democrat leadership. There is no stated avenue in the proposal for identifying illegals and, in fact, by your own admission medical professionals are forbidden to discriminate. As usual the left is “coming in the back door” to allow the coverage of illegals – still on the backs of the taxpayer. This trojan horse legislation that is designed to replace our republic with the Obama dream of socialism/marxism should elicite cries of disdain, not your pathetic whimper!

    Tim Davis | 09.10.09

    It may not include them at this point by name but when Nancy and the boys bring up the amnesty bill next you can bet it will allow illegal’s to get that “free” healthcare after all. Just one more ripple in the pond…

    Patrick Rich | 09.10.09

    Existing, more-specific law has not prevented 12 million illegals from entering the country. They do receive medical care today. Their children automatically become citizens. And finally, any “law” that does not clearly specify [means for] verification of legality or penalties for law-breaking – not to mention addressing source(s) of funding and responsibilities for implementation – is not an *enforceable* law, something drafters of legislation know all to well.

    “prohibits insurers from denying coverage based on personal characteristics”
    “states the ineligibility of illegals”

    Can you spell ’s o w h a t’ ? That’s just vague rhetoric thrown in to provide the ever-popular plausible deniability. Apparently it works on the media.

    Michael McBride | 09.10.09

    As is the usual media bias, you totally ignore the actual practice and instead tout the bueaucratic letter of the law. Clearly it is also against the law for illeagals to be in our country. Letter of the law. But, news flash to our unbiased media, they are here in the millions. Why? No enforcement, duh. Of course you opinion makers conviently ignore that parallel because you are advocates for a medical social program, regardless of cost and rationing.

    Mike

    Dr. Dennis O’Connor | 09.10.09

    The President did not commit a lie of commission, he just conveniently failed to note that there is no mechanism in the current bill to verify citizenship and that there is a requirement in another section stating that everyone qualified will be accepted…

    Many of his supporters/operatives on the far left also demand immediate amnesty and eventual citizenship for 12.5 million illegals…

    From those two facts, one can argue that 12.5 million illegal aliens will indeed be subsumed into the national health plan and their premiums paid by the taxpayer…

    Mr. Wilson may have been intemperate, but to this neutral observer he does not appear to be too far off the mark…

    dr. o

    Jeff | 09.10.09

    ” Here’s one fact: Obama was correct in asserting that illegal immigrants would be barred from receiving subsidized health benefits by language included in all proposed Democratic reform bills.”

    Here’s another fact: Legislation enacted in 1986, The Immigration Reform and Control Act, stated that illegal immigrants can’t be employed. And we know that no illegal immigrants are employed in the country because of that legislation says so.

    “Some Republican members of Congress, however, assert that the Democratic health bills do not contain language calling for verification that recipients of any health subsidies in fact are in the US legally.”

    Isn’t there a fact about this too? In fact weren’t there amendments that would have required the use Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program, which is an E-Verify for government benefits, that were rejected by Democrats? As in what is written in legislation against employing illegal immigrants, laws mean little without the willingness and effective means of enforcement.

    We shouldn’t worry so much about politicians lying as we should about “reporters” that lie by omission or otherwise.

    sam | 09.10.09

    I believe Joe Wilson represented the feelings of millions of Americans that differ with President Obama. The president wanted to use the theatrics of speaking in front of a joint session of congress to take advantage of his bully pulpit and his talent for oratory. But, he also opens the door to those who don’t want to buy what he’s trying to sell. That’s what Joe Wilson did and I fully back him up.

    Samuel Gonzalez

    S. Sandlin | 09.10.09

    When the complete truth is out in the open, everything is abundantly clear. While it’s not, it’s muddy water with lots of surprises every time.

    Jared-Atlanta | 09.10.09

    Yes, illegals will get health care coverage.

    2 proposed amendments specifically calling for the verification of the recipients of any health subsidies were not passed. The language in the bill that was inserted to diffuse criticism merely states that illegals can not legally get health care. That is similar in effectiveness to the legislation that declares that nobody may cross the US border illegally. (And we know how that works).

    So the answer is that under the Obama proposals, illegals will get health care coverage. The situation is summed up here:

    While coverage for illegals buys a lot of votes, we really can’t afford it at this time. As an independent I like Obama and voted for him. Now, I am disappointed that the first black president is spending so much time and political capital trying to get the Government a growing role in Health Care. He should forget ideology and focus on the economy, and show some fiscal discipline to get us out of the recession. Otherwise he does increases his chance of a failed presidency. Hopefully he will realize that soon.

    Like

  35. Hors Service said

    You said:
    “Are you saying that by my bringing up these points, that it stems from bigotry? I’m not sure what you are saying here.”

    Well, no. It doesn’t stem from bigotry, although bigotry and this arguments feeds on the same ignorance and lies.

    “All of these things listed are still legitimate concerns.”

    None of them are. You can debate about the healthcare being good or not

    “Until he presents his actual birth certificate or the hospital does then it IS a legitimate question.”

    His birth certificate is disponible on the internet, but you claim it’s a fake. You practically accused hawaian health services and officials to be liars.
    You will only accept the revelation that Obama is not born in the USA, not the truth.
    Secondly, it’s not an argument to discard his political action.

    “And he did have an issue with the American flag.”

    He has a brain and principles. And now he’s wearing the american flag. To me, speaking as a french, all this *patriotism* is crap, and a very bad argument against a political action also.

    “I still would like to know why he did certain things and I never got any answers so I don’t know either way what to think.”

    You had answers, but you just didn’t want to accept them, which is different.

    “And I never said he was another hitler I don’t think anyone has said that. What he IS doing is making socialistic and communistic decisions / policy that can be compared with the same decisions / policy that Hitler made. This is a legitimate comparison!”

    No, it isn’t. You don’t compare a democratic president with a racist totalitarist dictator. Because when you does it, you’re deliberately trying to make people associate Obama with the rest of Hitler, i.e racism and extermination.
    I’ve never personnaly compared Bush to Hitler, and there were far more reason to do so.
    What is your problem with *socialistic* by the way? You agreed that full-capitalism wasn’t desirable. You’re against indiviualism. But when it’s time to act *oh no it’s socialistic!*. State-driven healthcare works for all others industrialised nations, and they’re not communist.
    By the way, Cuba has a better health care than America. (and Cuba is a dictature).

    “That I am questioning these things does not make me a racist. Please tell me that is not what you are saying.”

    No, I’m not saying that. Don’t be paranoid. I know that you have a brain, even if you don’t want to accept it sometimes. But others might be racists. As you repetedly said, “it’s a legitimate concern!”. Overall when you consider the history of racism in the USA.

    “And oh yes it is.. the death panel is a legitimate argument that no one here wanted to address when I brought it up for debate. There were very valid concerns (until Obama REMOVED that portion from the bill) that the government would be pressuring the elderly to die sooner. It was in the cost control portion of the bill! Come on you guys.. again, get real!”

    No, it’s not. It’s emotional, partial, partly untrue. It makes a good political slogan, but not an argument.
    I don’t want to search sources or stuff on this subject, it’s an american problem.
    But it’s still a bad argument.
    And by the way, it’s what your insurance companies are doing at the moment.

    Like

  36. Princessxxx said

    obama the antichrist,
    jesus was a community organizer, pontius pilate was a governor.

    sarah palin as prez, are you kidding? i think you are just pulling our legs here with that kind of crazy talk.

    of the two screeching queens, olbermann & beck, i think olbermann is much more factual, but from now on, i will just use the lesbian to make my points, she doesn’t scream.

    Like

  37. Princessxxx said

    oh, and kay, Joe Wilson did lie, and it seems he is proving himself to be quite the liar. why do you republicans feel the need to have a mascot named Joe? Joe the plumber, Joe the wilson?
    Joe the sixpak?

    now kay, hors brought up that you are the one that started the race, birther, flag pin arguments, because later you claimed that the liberals brought it up. yes you did.

    and kay, you are the one that has no real arguments, just half truths and innuendos that really reek of false witness.

    and ota, you can’t watch olbermann and i can’t watch that puppet show.
    please tell me that you didn’t leave medical school to become a puppeteer.

    Like

  38. obama the antichrist said

    no i didnt ahahahaha never will leave med school

    see if a woman can prepare a moose out in a field i think she is tough enough to handle presidency and yes i am saying she is way more qualified than obama

    jesus never organized a community he was a teacher and a preacher he was the messiah. he traveled from place to place to teach never to organize. jesus is like a candle a community organizer is like a candle carrier.

    Like

  39. princessxxx said

    i see, killing and gutting a moose makes for a good president. well, that is if the moose killer is a woman? i know a ton of lesbos that can do that, but i wouldn’t want any of them for president.

    or you know, maybe that’s not such a bad idea after all.
    some bulldagger for prez.

    ROSIE O’DONNELL FOR PRESIDENT

    Like

  40. dorian said

    ota, i don’t think shooting a moose and cutting it up is not one of the qualifications for american presidency. do you also think palin is more qualified than hillary? or pelosi? you’re just being funny there. palin is as qualified as arnold the terminator to be governor. too bad she couldn’t handle even that. i would love some of that moose jerky, though.

    Like

  41. Princessxxx said

    dorian, be careful what you say.
    i heard sarah palin is going to name her next daughter, Moose Jerky.

    anyway, that levi johnston deadbeat dad sure is cute.

    oh and kay, joe wilson, or as i like to call him, josephine the racist, well, she can’t be to remorseful of his rude congressional actions, he is now signing authogrpahs on photos of himself caught in his misdeeds. making buck off of it. i wonder if she knows how to gut a moose?

    Like

  42. princessxxx said

    “WHITE CRACKER”

    Like

  43. dorian said

    well your josephine is showing up in those posters. he’s probably selling t-shirts too. he inspired their new slogan ‘you lie!’ next he’ll write a book. the other hero/mascot, joe the plumber is resting easy nowadays. he invested the money he made from the republican campaign well. the new neocon hero/mascot, the gun-toting protester is now giving tv interviews. kaching kaching.

    Like

  44. princessxxx said

    Like

  45. dorian said

    again with “it has nothing to do with racism”. they’re crying “freedom of speech”. it’s grafitti, criminal mischief. he posted the posters everywhere. even if it was mother theresa’s picture it would still be grafitti and defacing public property. where’s the freedom of speech there? what a moron.

    Like

  46. princessxxx said

    this kid is a repressed homosexual, that’s what they do, deface property with bad art. it’s an acting out phase, she will grow out of it. she just needs some weed and alcohol.
    a little cover girl would help cover up some of those pimples

    Like

  47. princessxxx said

    Like

  48. kay~ms said

    uh Princess… I never claimed that the liberals brought up those things first, I was saying that Dorian continues to bring it up yet none of you ever did present any valid arguments against these things when I tried to debate them. Except Hors but his “arguments” are mostly just responses that are disguised as arguments. They never have any substance. Sorry Hors.

    And when did Joe Wilson lie? I missed that.. not saying he didn’t but I dont’ know what you are talking about.

    Like

  49. kay~ms said

    And I’m still waiting for any counter arguments to the very valid points presented concerning coverage for illegal aliens.

    Specifically, these points…

    ” any “law” that does not clearly specify [means for] verification of legality or penalties for law-breaking – not to mention addressing source(s) of funding and responsibilities for implementation – is not an *enforceable* law, something drafters of legislation know all to well.”

    “Here’s another fact: Legislation enacted in 1986, The Immigration Reform and Control Act, stated that illegal immigrants can’t be employed. And we know that no illegal immigrants are employed in the country because of that legislation says so.”

    “Isn’t there a fact about this too? In fact weren’t there amendments that would have required the use Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program, which is an E-Verify for government benefits, that were rejected by Democrats? As in what is written in legislation against employing illegal immigrants, laws mean little without the willingness and effective means of enforcement. ”

    why were these amendments (the save program) rejected???

    so, come on Dorian… I would really like you to justify this claim:

    “But opponents of ‘Obamacare’ need to stop using illegals as a weapon against the bill. They’re not covered in HR320. Anyone saying otherwise is either ignorant or lying. ”

    With the above points presented, the “Anyone saying otherwise is either ignorant or lying” statement isn’t justified.

    This is clearly just more liberal, democratic, far left BS.

    Like

  50. You said you wanted responses : Kay~ms September 18:”I still would like to know why he did certain things and I never got any answers”.

    So I gave you responses.

    By the way, if you don’t think that Obama birth certificate as disponible widely on the web has any substance, then I’m afraid the only way to get more substance is flying to Hawaï and touching it.

    Accusations of “unpatriotism”,”nazism” and “non-american birth” are not arguments either, but you’re still trying to raise them.

    A little foreigner view on the “coverage of illegals aliens”: so, now, to save someone’s life, to help people, you’re going to ask if they have the proper ID on them.
    Who is supposed to be the moralest here?
    *While I totally agree that we can’t heal every patient of the third-world. Hopefully, there’s not too much of them. And most of them pay taxes.

    Like

  51. dorian said

    there is no more argument regarding the illegal immigrants. it’s established that the answer is no coverage for them and it’s established that you will believe what you want to believe anyway even if the answer is always a no.
    go ask doug to justify his “Anyone saying otherwise is either ignorant or lying” statement. he will just repeat the same answers to you.

    so now it seems that the new trend is to harp on the illegal immigrants.
    so it’s gone from obama isn’t american to they’re gonna kill granny to we will pay for illegal immigrants’ healthcare? i see. i ain’t payin for illegal immigrants. if you’re so concerned about them, write a letter to your congressman. your concern shows empathy. how christian of you. that’s exactly what ted kennedy was talking about. empathy. he was a good christian too.

    Like

  52. princessxxx said

    FAT RUSH LIMBAUGH SUPER RACIST SAYS, “OBAMA’S AMERICA WHITE KIDS GETTING BEAT UP ON SCHOOL BUSES NOW. WE NEED SEGREGATED BUSES.”
    SORRY OBAMA THE ANTICHRIST, IT’S KEITH OLBERMANN

    Like

  53. obama the antichrist said

    gutting a moose was a joke i just think its kinda hot how she is straight and can prepare a moose like that ahahahha 😉 now again let me say hilary was the best choice in the primaries. and if hilary beat obama no sarah palin. hilary is the best diplomat and a cold hearted bit…woman.

    Like

  54. kay~ms said

    Dorian, is it established that illegal aliens are not allowed to work in this country? The answer is yes. Do illegals work in this country anyway? that answer is also yes.

    You are still living in that make believe liberal world where you think you can believe everything told to you ( or written by the government in this instance). It’s funny because I bet you didn’t believe everything Bush said. So you take a liberal democrats word as gospel which is you perogitive but you also seem to insist that if it’s good enough for you then it should be good enough for everyone. Sorry, it’s not good enough for me and a lot of other people. There are too many examples of why we cannot believe everything told to us or even written as I gave an example to you above.

    Hors, you are the same way… you just seem to accept anything a liberal democrat has to say as gospel (the truth). I know you weren’t born yesterday… so what exactly are you saying? the same as Dorian? If you deem it to be the truth then it is? If the “proof” is acceptable to you then it should also be acceptable for everyone else too? I’ve presented so many valid arguments here and they just convieniently get ignored. The most recent example is Dorian’s response up above to the points about illegals getting coverage.

    And as far as Obama’s birth certificate goes, did you read Bill Keller’s explanation for why he requires more proof? It doesn’t seem that you did so I’ll post the link again here… please read it and then if you still think it’s wrong or racist or bigoted or whatever, please back it up with counter arguments to his very valid points to prove that there is no reason for legitimate concern. I’m not going to take yours or Dorians judgements as truth..sorry, I require more.

    http://www.liveprayer.com/ddarchive3.cfm?id=3736

    And I knew eventually I would get accused of not wanting illegals to get medical coverage. I never said that. This is just another diversion tactic similar to playing the race card.

    Like

  55. obama the antichrist said

    then i will say it for you illegals should not get medical coverage. they are illegal why should we have to pay for them. if cuba has amazing healthcare why not stay there? its not my responsibility to pay for their healthcare! Also its not anyones responsibility to pay for my healthcare. if i need cardiovascular surgery i would never make anyone have to pay for except my insurance and if they dont cover me then i will find a way to pay it on my own i would never make another citizen pay for me.

    Like

  56. princessxxx said

    And as far as Obama’s birth certificate goes, did you read Bill Keller’s explanation for why he requires more proof?”
    OH, LOL, KAY, LOL, …bill keller requires more proof. that’s hilarious.
    bill keller, the dr phil of prayer, the world’s leading internet envangelist requires more proof. oh, hahahah.
    well, i want to see that b!tches tax returns.
    and kay, you say back it up with legitimate concerns. we have already done that over and over. don’t you read?

    Like

  57. princessxxx said

    here, take a look at some of the images i googled using the search term “OBAMA RACIST”

    Obama as Curious George eating a banana
    everybody’s a racist! except for us, of course, ’cause we’re black!!
    not muslim, just a racist
    racist
    michelle obama being lynched by the KKK
    dead monkey
    obama as witchdoctor
    obama bucks
    an africans view of obama
    watermelons on the lawn of the white house
    if obama is president, will we still call it the white house?
    bucket of fried chicken
    the race card
    crucified obama
    obama is my slave

    Like

  58. dorian said

    good morning, blog!

    ota – i feel the same way but heaven forbid you or any of your loved ones get cancer or ms or some other debilitating disease requiring intensive medical treatments – no insurance coverage is enough. medical expenses one of the reasons for bankruptcy in this country.

    kay, same ole’ same ole’ strategy, eh? we’re aware of your invalidations of any ‘proof’ or response given by anyone else. point is, if you still believe obama is not an american citizen and not the antichrist, why would you believe anything written on a bill? you base your truth on something written by a bill keller? who is he? is he some experienced statesman? did he write any bills? have you heard of https://tothewire.wordpress.com/history-of-separation-of-church-and-state/ ??

    P – ditto. hehehhe

    hey how about a t-shirt design with ‘battling bloggers’

    darnit i have to work. carry on carry on children of the corn…

    Like

  59. dorian said

    damn, p, just looking at those titles make me cringe. i just hope his kids do not see any of this. it’s just plain mean and hurtful. whoever responsible for those can’t believe in the good Jesus. Satan, yes.

    Like

  60. kay~ms said

    oh my gosh!! P, you’re kidding!! You actually found that discusting stuff..it was on the internet?? I hope you documented it so it can be verified. FINALLY we have the long elusive proof that there are racists! They do exist! You’re going to be famous for being the one to finally prove the existance of racists! I personally always knew they existed, I spotted one holding a sign just yesterday.. I swear! I was so mad that I didn’t have my camera!

    Like

  61. kay~ms said

    You guys are pathetic here, I’m sorry but you’re not fooling anyone, not me at least. You are implying that I have rejected your very valid arguments in the past. Well here’s a very recent example (proof) to support my claim that you all don’t give any valid arguments!

    I provided very valid arguments to the claim that there will be no coverage of illegals…comment #34 and more specifically #49.

    Your response?

    “there is no more argument regarding the illegal immigrants. it’s established that the answer is no coverage for them and it’s established that you will believe what you want to believe anyway even if the answer is always a no.”

    What?? What is established is that you feel that if it’s the truth then… it’s the truth. But you don’t even back it up with anything except that the government said so. Again… WHAT?? I’ve given you a primary example of how even though the government says it is so, it is not the actual case…

    “Dorian, is it established that illegal aliens are not allowed to work in this country? The answer is yes. Do illegals work in this country anyway? that answer is also yes.”

    Your response to that?… nothing… well, here is your actual response…

    “kay, same ole’ same ole’ strategy, eh? we’re aware of your invalidations of any ‘proof’ or response given by anyone else. point is, if you still believe obama is not an american citizen and not the antichrist, why would you believe anything written on a bill? you base your truth on something written by a bill keller? who is he? is he some experienced statesman? did he write any bills? have you heard of https://tothewire.wordpress.com/history-of-separation-of-church-and-state/ ??”

    First, what does Bill Keller have to do with the issue of illegals getting coverage?? What? This is yet another one of your diversion tactics.

    Second, you actually critisize me for not accepting you valid arguments WHILE you are AVOIDING giving yet ANOTHER valid argument!!

    How much more absurd can this get??????? This is absolutely ridiculous!!!

    Even Betty, very wisely, is staying away from this one.

    Like

  62. Hors Service said

    It’s because Betty has quit the blog since a while. It’s back in one of the post treads.

    Ok Kay…

    Once you will accept that we do have arguments, you will stop saying that we have none, and can’t answer to you.

    Obama has produced his “certificate of live birth”, it’s disponible on the web, I’ve given you a link, it’s a certified document, and CONSIDERED AS EVIDENCE IN ANY COURT DECISION, it’s written on it. But you say it’s a false one. Why? Just because you’re convinced that it is so.

    Hawaï officials and health services have confirmed that the birth of Obama was recorded on their lists, but you don’t believe them.

    There’s still newspapers dating from 48 years ago which shows that his parents published his birth. What is it, a conspiracy which started 48 years ago?

    I’ve read the liveprayer post you talked about. It doesn’t answers this facts, and it spread lies: Obama showed his birth certificate, and a cerficicate of live birth IS an official document. And secondly, it should makes you feel ashamed: this guy is mixing religion with politics. It has NOTHING to do together. This is not a religious preach, this is a political speech, and it’s obvious! And he is using capital letters too much, and several exclamations points when only one is necessary. I hate this kind of tricks.

    So you’re not believing the governement (which is absolutely good, one shouldn’t accept without thinking what the gov tells us), but instead you’re believing an obvious religious freak throwing slogans and not a single material evidence?

    On the illegal healthcare:
    So, the governement said he won’t cover illegals, but he is going to try to cover them behind your back?! Do you really think the governement is going to try to be human to people and spend money on them without getting anything in return while you’re against it?!
    So, the next time someone asks your help because he or she is severely wounded, you will ask his or her identity card? And throw this person away if he or she hasn’t? How very christian of you.

    Finally, Kay: even if you haven’t answered some of my points, in this thread or another, I don’t send them back in your face, I’m being humble. You’re perhaps not interested at the moment, evading it purposefully, or forgot it. But you keep saying that all of your opponents can’t/refuse to answer your arguments, even if we do so.

    @OTA: Yeah, that kind of individualism is exactly why some american firms are near to bankrupcy and why you’re paying so much for an inefficient and inequal healthcare.

    Like

  63. kay~ms said

    oh I have so much to answer to you here Hors… I will do some now and some later ( I can’t do it all now)… first, I know that I’ve been behind on answering your counter arguments… please, any arguments that are standing out to you right now.. bring them forward and I will address them, but do it one at a time. As I said earlier, many of your arguments are just responses with no substance, you seem to think that that will work. I don’t have time right now to address these “counter arguments”. Just pick something, and I’ll address it.. pick the one thing that you are convinced that I am wrong about.. that is the one I WANT you to pick. It seems that right now it is Obama’s birth place issue. So I’m going to respond to that later today or tomorrow.

    2nd, you completely ignored my example / proof that Dorian ISN’T addressing my points and yet you still continue to say I am ignoring all of your (your’s, Dorian’s etc) points. What????

    3rd, Betty did say she wasn’t going to post anymore and yet she did… she is still reading here.. that is my belief. Obviously you think that the other is the gospel truth… no chance that my belief could be accurate. I love it when the “open minded” (liberals) are close minded, how ironic and hypocritical.

    You said: “I’ve read the liveprayer post you talked about. It doesn’t answers this facts, and it spread lies:Obama showed his birth certificate, and a cerficicate of live birth IS an official document. ”

    I will explain the problem with your point later (again). And also prove that your statement (accusation of lies) is itself a lie!

    You said: “And secondly, it should makes you feel ashamed: this guy is mixing religion with politics. It has NOTHING to do together. This is not a religious preach, this is a political speech, and it’s obvious!

    Again, you are wrong. Many government policies are against God. Bill Keller is speaking out against these policies. You don’t understand Christianity (the concept of serving God) and it shows here. Abortion for example. It is killing God’s creation, it is against His will, and the Government is allowing it. Citizens have a RIGHT to critisize government for ANY reason ESPECIALLY for the reason to save human life.

    Please don’t assume that you can now tell people how to preach.

    And as long as the earth is populated by humans, religion and politics will NEVER be separate. It’s unavoidable. Dream on on that one liberals. Yet another ignorant liberal view.

    And lastly (for now) please don’t imply that I don’t want illegals to get emergency medical care. I never said that and I believe it is yet ANOTHER (I’m losing count now) liberal tactic to divert from the issue which you ignored!!! instead you made a horrible accusation against me that very few human beings are capable of!! And you know that! You are trying to divert the attention away from the point at hand!! This Hors IS a perfect example of those common liberal low down dirty tactics that you all seem to be using more and more lately. YOu think your desparation doesn’t show? It does. Just be honest.. try it. It’s working great for me. You all are really getting your butts kicked here. And I’m sick of having to tippy toe around your delicate egos. It’s ridiculous.

    You said:

    “On the illegal healthcare:
    So, the governement said he won’t cover illegals, but he is going to try to cover them behind your back?! Do you really think the governement is going to try to be human to people and spend money on them without getting anything in return while you’re against it?!
    So, the next time someone asks your help because he or she is severely wounded, you will ask his or her identity card? And throw this person away if he or she hasn’t? How very christian of you.”

    The question is NOT “do I want illegals to get emergency medical care”!! The question is..” Will illegals be covered? (not talking about EMERGENCY medical care here). Was Obama lying????” And I’m not talking about technicalities (technically he isn’t lying) I’m talking about the truth… what will happen? Reason/ prove to me that we can believe what is written in the bill!!! I’ve reasoned that we can’t!! And so far no one is reasoning otherwise! You all are just making ignorant comments of my ignorance! How IGNORANT!! How REVERSE IGNORANT of you all!!!

    https://tothewire.wordpress.com/a-troubling-new-social-ill-reverse-ignorance/

    And the reason that people use so many capitals and exclamation points is because of the people who are JUST NOT GETTING IT!!!!!

    Like

  64. princessxxx said

    kay, joe wilson lied about being an immigration attorney.
    see post #18, two minutes and 40 seconds in.

    and once again kay, you inspire,
    i’m going to collect all the hate art i kind find and blame it on you.

    and who brought up BILL “THE MOST DANGEROUS WOMAN IN THE WORLD” KELLER in the first place?

    How much more absurd can this get??????? This is absolutely ridiculous!!!

    how can you be so sure about that?

    Like

  65. kay~ms said

    I have a post waiting moderation…

    P, I’ll just take your word for it here… so Joe wilson may be a racist and a liar.

    That still doesn’t address the point about illegals receiving healthcare. And if Obama knew that illegals would still receive healthcare regardless of what the bill says.

    You said: “and who brought up BILL “THE MOST DANGEROUS WOMAN IN THE WORLD” KELLER in the first place?”

    What?

    Like

  66. kay~ms said

    Hors, you said:

    “Obama has produced his “certificate of live birth”, it’s disponible on the web, I’ve given you a link, it’s a certified document, and CONSIDERED AS EVIDENCE IN ANY COURT DECISION, it’s written on it.”

    This is the counter arguement from the WND.com website:

    The “certification of live birth” posted online and widely touted as “Obama’s birth certificate” does not in any way prove he was born in Hawaii, since the same “short-form” document is easily obtainable for children not born in Hawaii. The true “long-form” birth certificate – which includes information such as the name of the birth hospital and attending physician – is the only document that can prove Obama was born in Hawaii, but to date he has not permitted its release for public or press scrutiny.

    And that is another key point.. why has he not PERMITTED the release of his long form birth certificate? What is your answer for that point?

    And as to your claim that it is considered as evidence in any court decision… it apparently wasn’t good enough in judge James Robertson’s court room… he tried to threaten an attorney with financial sanctions for “frivolousness”…

    “Judge Robertson’s dismissal ordered the attorney to respond immediately and explain why there should not be financial sanctions. Hemenway complied, pointing out that the assumption of Obama’s eligibility “assumes facts not in evidence.”

    “Robertson immediately backed off, issuing only a reprimand to Hemenway, a reprimand which now is on appeal.”

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=110300

    Now here is going to be the real problem for you and everyone else who claims that the “certification of live birth” is a “certified” document and therefore should be accepted.

    If you go to this link and scroll down.. you’ll see ANOTHER “certified” document. This birth certificate is certification of Obama’s birth in Kenya!

    Now what are you going to do?? Every argument you have given me that says we should accept Obama’s “birth certificate” posted on the internet as fact, can also be said for this Kenya birth certificate.

    See… you can’t always believe everything you read and hear. Documents are forged all the time. Again, just because you deem it to be true, that doesn’t make it true. Claims of truth need to be backed up with valid proof, not just your belief without any research to support it. You and others imply that it’s not right to question, that we should just accept what is told to us… I’m still trying to understand that one.

    And please read that entire link concerning Nancy Pelosi and what appears to be her knowledge beforehand of the problem with Obama’s eligibility.

    Like

  67. kay~ms said

    I have another comment awaiting moderation…

    And here is the link that I fogot to include in that comment… this link has the OTHER birth certificate.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109363

    Like

  68. princessxxx said

    the world net daily, talk about the christian “fringe” media.
    world net daily has already announced two birth cerificates that both turned out to be forged.
    and the head of WND, Joe Farah is the leader of this movement:
    WorldNetDaily Wants You To Think Obama Is the Antichrist

    Like

  69. princessxxx said

    or you can read it here, directly at the source,
    Did Jesus actually reveal name of the ‘antichrist’?
    Viral video makes Hebrew word connection to latest White House occupant
    world net daily

    what a bunch of insane BS

    so don’t try to pull that fast one on me.

    Like

  70. princessxxx said

    also kay, don’t try to pass this off on me as christian behavior, because it’s not.

    they are trying to make innuendo the truth, that’s what is known as bearing false witness.

    nothing christian about that.
    unless world net daily knows something to be 100% true they shouldn’t be reporting on it.

    and of course your buddy bill keller with his 30 minute birther infomercial that he put out.
    how is that working out for him? did he scam enough money out of people to finally get it on air? i bet it’s on fox. NOT,
    i bet he hasn’t gotten the money he needs, oh no, another failed venture for http://liveprayer.com/
    i can hardly prevent myself from doing this, but , here goes. LOL!!!

    ahh, laughter is the best medicine.

    Like

  71. princessxxx said

    kay, you’re so vain

    Glenn Beck on Barack Obama:
    “This guy is, I believe, a racist”
    [FOX News]

    So Kay, what we have here is 28 seconds of your boyfriend
    calling President Barack Hussein Obama a racist, is that what you are saying?

    MICHELLE me so horney” MALKIN, OBAMA IS A RACIST!

    EXTREMELY RACIST AND IGNORANT CROWD IN OHIO

    stupid christians

    President Barack Hussein Obama reacts to death threat!

    well kay, i guess BILL “the most dangerous woman in the world” KELLER isn’t the only one making sacrifices.

    oh, you better believe i’m documenting it all.

    Like

  72. kay~ms said

    P, something I’ve noticed about you… you post things that support the other side more than it does your side. Cops handcuff, assualt man for putting up posters??? I wonder if they would have treated someone the same for putting up a garage sale sign?? WHICH people do ALL the time!! That is a great story and shows how scared we should be about where our country is headed.

    And now you’ve made accusations of bias against WND. Well, I hope everyone reads the actual article at WND after they’ve read that far left liberaly biased article you posted first. The WND article is unbelievably UN-biased. I can only hope that this blog could be like them one day.

    The actual title of the article you posted “World Net Daily wants you to think Obama is the anti Christ” is so far off the mark. Not one time did WND say Obama was the anti Christ. They even posted that the author of the video himself says that he is not making that claim. He / they are making observations. But I know that that is another area that gets foggy with liberals… you all have a hard to understanding the differences. It’s another liberal restriction (how ironic)… along with don’t question… don’t make unbiased observations.

    Like

  73. kay~ms said

    I have another comment waiting moderation…

    P, that does concern me, that GB called Obama a racist. I didn’t see that show. I would like to see why he said that. He may very well be revealing yet more information that the rest of the (liberaly biased) media won’t touch (van jones for example). Yes, I would like to hear why he said that.

    And, are you STILL harping on the racists? Why are you giving them so much attention?? That is exactly what they want. It’s doing Obama more harm than good to keep repeating that trash.

    Like

  74. kay~ms said

    Another liberal tactic…try to bury comments that you have no answers for…

    Hors, I hope you don’t miss post #66 You are usually good about not missing posts but I just wanted to bring it up so others might not miss it either.

    And I’ve STILL not gotten any responses to the claim that illegals WILL get coverage and Obama and the liberals know it. see comment #49 for my arguments.

    These are the “arguments” that I’ve gotten so far to these points:

    “there is no more argument regarding the illegal immigrants. it’s established that the answer is no coverage for them and it’s established that you will believe what you want to believe anyway even if the answer is always a no.”

    “A little foreigner view on the “coverage of illegals aliens”: so, now, to save someone’s life, to help people, you’re going to ask if they have the proper ID on them.
    Who is supposed to be the moralest here?”

    “kay, same ole’ same ole’ strategy, eh? we’re aware of your invalidations of any ‘proof’ or response given by anyone else. point is, if you still believe obama is not an american citizen and not the antichrist, why would you believe anything written on a bill? you base your truth on something written by a bill keller? who is he? is he some experienced statesman? did he write any bills?”

    “On the illegal healthcare:
    So, the governement said he won’t cover illegals, but he is going to try to cover them behind your back?! Do you really think the governement is going to try to be human to people and spend money on them without getting anything in return while you’re against it?!
    So, the next time someone asks your help because he or she is severely wounded, you will ask his or her identity card? And throw this person away if he or she hasn’t? How very christian of you.”

    oh, and “Joe Wilson is a liar”.

    NONE of these responses addresses my points / arguments… just a bunch of sidestepping and desparate accusations… again, Hors, I NEVER said I do not want illegals to get emergency medical coverage. I would never want to deny anyone emergency medical care. There are very few people who could be that cruel… that “argument” just reveals your desparation because you don’t have an argument.

    And you guys actual accuse ME of having no arguments??? LOL LOL LOL LOL!!! uh.. should I say?… yet ANOTHER liberal tactic? Yes I believe so.

    Like

  75. dorian said

    yes, kay, you are the only one with arguments and answers here because you will never acknowledge anybody elses’s arguments and answers as valid. people get tired of repeating themselves, or worse, get bored and lose interest in coming to our blog. do you realize how many times you say ‘liberal tactics’? the ‘tactics’ you should be aware of is coming from the rnc – they enable hate propaganda via zookeepers beck, limbaugh, malkin and the like. red meat, baby!!
    i get the feeling they want to incite another civil war sometimes.
    the mob’s vitriol is escalating. talk about negative. the rest of the world is puzzled because this government is trying to give something good to its people by way of free and affordable healthcare and here it’s being demonized by the very people that could use the benefits. this calls for the first time i will say this word. ready?…it’s just plain STUPID.

    oh and thank you for the summary in comment 74. it’s important that our many readers see that many of us do not espouse medieval age beliefs.

    Like

  76. kay~ms said

    Dorian, could you remind me again what everyone else’s arguments are for the claim that illegal aliens won’t get healthcare? Actually the counter arguments to my points that I’ll list here (again).

    Specifically, these points…

    ” any “law” that does not clearly specify [means for] verification of legality or penalties for law-breaking – not to mention addressing source(s) of funding and responsibilities for implementation – is not an *enforceable* law, something drafters of legislation know all to well.”

    “Here’s another fact: Legislation enacted in 1986, The Immigration Reform and Control Act, stated that illegal immigrants can’t be employed. And we know that no illegal immigrants are employed in the country because of that legislation says so.”

    “Isn’t there a fact about this too? In fact weren’t there amendments that would have required the use Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program, which is an E-Verify for government benefits, that were rejected by Democrats? As in what is written in legislation against employing illegal immigrants, laws mean little without the willingness and effective means of enforcement. ”

    why were these amendments (the save program) rejected???

    This is so silly… if people are loosing interest it’s because they are realizing that they aren’t going to win the debate… should I just start letting them win? Is that what you are saying?

    Like

  77. kay~ms said

    And Dorian, I say liberal tactics so much because you guys are using them so much. It’s so simple… if you all would stop the tactics and then I won’t need to make the claims.. I’m actually getting tired of it myself.

    The rest of the world thinks that we should change what we have now for rationed healthcare? But then where would they go when they need healthcare and they aren’t getting it from their government?

    Like

  78. kay~ms said

    “people get tired of repeating themselves,”

    That’s so funny.. first you have to make a statement (argument) before it can ever get repeated.

    Like

  79. Princessxxx said

    kay, first, the pimply face @sshole pasting the anti-obama signs all over the neighborhood.
    where i live, you can’t even put up a garage sale sign without permission or they will take it down. another example of you twisting an argument to make it appear that you are right.

    and this is from wikipedia about joseph farah, the head of world net daily:
    (yes, kay, this sounds so unbiased. i hope ADKOB one day can have no conscience to just print lies after lie. LOL)
    He has been a proponent of the Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories, stating, “It’ll plague Obama throughout his presidency. It’ll be a nagging issue and a sore on his administration, much like Monica Lewinsky was on Bill Clinton’s presidency,” and, “It’s not going to go away, and it will drive a wedge in an already divided public.”[10] Farah had demanded that President-Elect Obama release his official full-form birth certificate.[11][12]

    He also claims that there is a “quiet conspiracy” to create a North American Union.[13]

    Like

  80. kay~ms said

    Yes, but again you’re missing the point… the question is when was someone ever met by 7 police officers, handcuffed and assaulted for putting up a garage sale sign??? It’s not me here doing the twisting to make it look like I am right.

    And I didn’t see any bias in the WND article about the person who made the Obama anti-Christ connection. No doubt there was probably some somewhere but again, alot less than what I find here. Anyway, that was the point, the biasness of the article. That Farah is determined to “plaque” Obama does not mean that he is incapable of being unbiased as the article itself and much of the website (that I’ve seen so far) shows. Clearly he has a problem with Obama, this situation is no different than any other president. What exactly is your point?

    It seems to me that he doesn’t like Obama’s socialist agendas, he doesn’t like that he refuses to prove that he does meet the criteria for presidency.

    Just reading WND’s mission statement pretty much explains why he has a problem with Obama.

    http://www.wnd.com/About%20WND

    Like

  81. kay~ms said

    I have a comment waiting moderation…

    Well, it’s really looking like no one is going to give any counter arguments to my points that it is justified to be concerned that we will be paying for healthcare for illegals.

    And that Joe Wilson was right. Obama lied.

    If there isn’t going to be any counter arguments then this would be the time for the people who entered into this debate to concede and admit that there is cause for concern.

    That would be the right thing to do.

    Like

  82. dorian said

    kay, the cause for concern re. illegals getting free healthcare is yours alone since you have convinced yourself that there is cause for concern. if that is what you want to believe, so be it.

    you are always the self-proclaimed winner to every debate in this blog. the only one who has ever done so. do you realize that? and yet you accuse everyone else of narcissism/arrogance. hmmm.

    Like

  83. kay~ms said

    Dorian, can you prove here that I am not the “winner” by explaining that there is no cause for concern of Americans paying for the healthcare of illegals? That is the whole idea here.. to debate the issue. But so far I’m the only one doing the debating yet there are 2 (or more) of us declaring themselves as winners…”HMMMMMM”.

    And not being able to admit when you are wrong can easily be symptoms of nacississm and arrogance.

    When will the liberals here learn that it’s wise to be able to back up what you say. Dorian, you keep digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole. You repeatedly say there is no cause for concern yet you won’t produce any arguments to back it up! I know I’m not the only one who is seeing this.

    This is now the 3rd (or 4th) time I’ve asked you to present your counter arguments to my points concerning this issue. And as Princess would say… “you’d better believe I’m keeping track.”

    Like

  84. kay~ms said

    And I CAN admit when I am wrong. Just referrence anything on this blog that I am wrong about… PROVE IT (like for instance the issue of illegals that we are debating now).. and I will admit that I was wrong. I may be slightly narcissistic ( I believe all of us are to some degree) and arrogant at times but at least I CAN admit when I am wrong.

    Like

  85. Just popping in to say that since large swathes of the economy, especially in California , are and always have been dependent on illegal immigrant workers who can be easily exploited, that economy can probably afford to throw them a bit of healthcare. Americans as employers and consumers are quite happy to exploit the labour of these people, so it’s a bit hypocritical to whinge about keeping them alive and well. Bye again.

    Like

  86. Princessxxx said

    kay it is you twisting things around.
    the boy was not putting up ‘for sale’ signs, he was putting up anti-obama signs. defacing public proerty. trust me, if you saw a kid putting up anti glen beck signs all over your trailer park, you would call the cops, too, and expect the kid to be arrested, don’t lie. it has nothing to do with free speech.

    joseph farah and world net daily. i will say this one last time.
    there is nothing christian about printing articles that are not 100% true and accurate. even with a disclaimer.
    farah will print whatever he can to make obama look bad, whether it’s true or not.

    anyway, kay, William is back ( https://tothewire.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/two-wolves-a-cherokee-parable/#comment-10925 ) and i hope you can have a civil discussion with him without resorting to twisting the facts or worse, quoting bill keller as a factual source.
    try to behave in a “true” christian manner.
    i’m betting money that you can’t.

    Like

  87. Princessxxx said

    oh and HI betty, bye betty.

    Like

  88. Princessxxx said

    joe wilson lied, not obama

    http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/

    False: Illegal Immigrants Will Be Covered

    One Republican congressman issued a press release claiming that “5,600,000 Illegal Aliens May Be Covered Under Obamacare,” and we’ve been peppered with queries about similar claims. They’re not true. In fact, the House bill (the only bill to be formally introduced in its entirety) specifically says that no federal money would be spent on giving illegal immigrants health coverage:

    H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

    Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

    Also, under current law, those in the country illegally don’t qualify for federal health programs. Of interest: About half of illegal immigrants have health insurance now, according to the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center, which says those who lack insurance do so principally because their employers don’t offer it.

    SO QUIT YOUR LYING KAY

    Like

  89. dorian said

    hi betty! california is highly dependent on our illegal farm workers to provide cheap labor. no one wants to pick grapes for below minimum wage here. without them, our country would not be able to competitive in the wine industry. au revoir and bye bye, betty!

    kay, i repeat, no one ever claims debate wins here but you.
    not me, not princess, not betty, ota, e-e, lawman, or tothewire. only you.

    H.R. 3200:Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS
    what other proof do you need?

    leave the illegals and the muslims for a while and maybe answer william. https://tothewire.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/two-wolves-a-cherokee-parable/#comment-10925 )

    Like

  90. kay~ms said

    P, what was he handcuffed and harrassed by seven officers for?? Was it “defacing public property” or putting up anti Obama signs? If it was for defacing public property, like I said, I’ve never seen or heard of that kind of treatment for someone putting up a garage sale sign.

    And, believe it or not, I’m not lying… no I would NOT call the police if someone put up an anti Beck sign. You really don’t believe that do you? That’s ridiculous.

    You said: “joseph farah and world net daily. i will say this one last time.
    there is nothing christian about printing articles that are not 100% true and accurate. even with a disclaimer.
    farah will print whatever he can to make obama look bad, whether it’s true or not.”

    True, it is not acting in a Christian manner to print lies. I don’t know where Farah did that though. And if he did, maybe it was a mistake, granted, probably a biased mistake. For someone who dislikes so much what Obama is doing, his unbiasness is amazing really.

    I strongly disagree that he will print “whatever he can to make obama look bad, whether it’s true or not”. If that were the case he would quickly lose the trust of his readers… me included.

    This is you twisting here P. Clearly Farah doesn’t like Obama. And you automatically think that that means he is incapable of reporting facts. Or observations unbiasedly. Now, are you saying here that people shouldn’t print observations? That article on the guy who discovered the link between Obama’s name and passages in the Bible was very interesting. And I didn’t come away BELIEVING that Obama was the anti Christ. There was no bias in that article. It’s ridiculous to think that Farah shouldn’t have printed that article. He doesn’t like Obama! Why wouldn’t he print it??? He, like all of us, don’t know who the anti Christ is or will be. It’s only speculation. We aren’t allowed to speculate now?? This liberalism is sooo restrictive!! I am just not understanding where you are coming from.

    And P, I have to honestly say that based on this comment to me… I don’t have much confidence in your ability to judge me fairly and unbiasedly on my debate with William…

    You accuse me of twisting on the issue of the guy putting up posters (there is an obvious problem in that situation of the guy being harrassed by 7 officers! and you won’t convince me otherwise) and you don’t seem to understand that people should be allowed to make observations and speculate on things and can do so unbiasedly.

    This is another one of those erroneous liberal beliefs.

    It is in the communist and socialist countries where you cannot speculate and make observations if they go against leadership.. you can be put in jail for that.

    Like

  91. kay~ms said

    Dorian, you said:

    “kay, i repeat, no one ever claims debate wins here but you.
    not me, not princess, not betty, ota, e-e, lawman, or tothewire. only you.”

    No, you all just accuse me of not having any arguments and you keep posting the same old comments as below, as if you are correct. I’d say that is making a claim that you are right / winning. I’m just more honest about it and I come out and say it.

    “H.R. 3200:Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS
    what other proof do you need?”

    I would like some assurance that this legislation will stick, unlike the legistlation that says that illegals can’t work here but do anyway. And why the democrats rejected an amendment that would give assurance that illegals wouldn’t get coverage… an ammendment that would CLEARLY address HOW “H.R. 3200:Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS” would be enforced!!
    Because when there is no clarity, the past shows that it IS NOT enforcable!!!

    That is what I need.

    And also, why you think you can believe what the government tells you? I’m guessing it’s just the liberal government that you chose to believe. good luck.

    “leave the illegals and the muslims for a while and maybe answer william.”

    Oh, I know you would like that… Dorian…did you contact William?

    Like

  92. kay~ms said

    P, that “fact” check site is very questionable to me now… I’ll respond to that later.

    Like

  93. Well, Kay, you’re using fox news and Glenn beck sites^^

    I have so much things to answer! Clearly Kay, I’m sorry but I’m going to have to step down for tonight. I will answer some of your posts directly adressed to me later, I hope I won’t miss anything important…

    Like

  94. princessxxx said

    well, this is getting exciting.

    first kay, one more time. the little closeted homo punk referenced in post #44, was not, i repeat, was not, putting up garage sale signs. they were racist anti-obama posters, and as seen in the video he was plastering them on everything.

    you remind me of glenn beck. on his show the other nite he said that acorn was engaged in bringing 13 year old prostitutes to our country. that is not true, no one in acorn was involved in that. watch the video tapes.

    so your going to try and make it like the kid was posting “garage sale signs”

    and by the way, i was stopped by the police and assualted and handcuffed, because they didn’t like my lippy mouth. it happens everyday.

    any idiot can call themsevlves a christian, and most do. but let me clue everyone in. i know how a christian is supposed to act, and if they don’t act accordingly , then pay the consequence.

    so kay, give me your address and i will come plaster your neighborhood with pictures of glenn beck in a diaper and see how you feel about that. how long before you say, that’s enough.

    Like

  95. dorian said

    kay, no one can give anybody any assurances about legislations, least of all, anybody on this blog! whether this contentious healthcare reform bill passes or not, people will question and fight or support it and if amendments need to be made, it will. that’s what makes this country still the best place to live in, government-wise.

    and you can bet i contacted william initially,just like i contacted you and OTA. since adkob’s birth i’ve contacted many diverse political and religious groups so everybody’s voice is heard. some i’ve contacted: jews for jesus, the scientologists, various fundamentalist christians (the more extreme the better), gay mormons, masonic groups, atheist groups, church of satan and more. i go to other blogs and comment and invite them and give our blog url. i only do alphainventions randomly and will probably stop doing it since they’re making things too cumbersome and time-consuming. so this is how we get many visitors on our site. many do not leave comments, though. i’m glad william did. so give it your best shot, kay! i have an important question to ask william myself re. lds after you’re done.

    oh and princess found us all by herself. she tracked keller down! betty and hors also found us via one of lawman’s posts. i’m currently recruiting another conservative but he’s not biting yet. you can help recruit!

    Like

  96. princessxxx said

    RECRUIT, INDOCTRINATE, MOLEST!

    Like

  97. dorian said

    LMAO P – we’ll put a new badge on your jacket with your new acronym: RIM.

    Like

  98. princessxxx said

    oh, lol dorian, RIM is my middle name.

    Like

  99. kay~ms said

    Ok..maybe that is the problem.. you think the posters are racist. THEY ARE NOT RACIST! It’s the joker… Why so socialist? REMEMBER??? There is no racism there. I never interpreted it that way ever, but I guess if I’m a liberal and looking for any excuse to demonize anyone who speaks out against Obama, I guess I might ONLY see a white face on a black man. It’s a shame that someone cannot express their dislike of SOCIALISM without being accussed of racism. It’s a shame that someone cannot express their dislike of a president without being accused of racism!!

    And what exactly is the political point of GB in a diaper??

    Like

  100. kay~ms said

    ” people will question and fight or support it and if amendments need to be made, it will.”

    Well, the Republicans are trying to do that NOW and it isn’t getting done! No assurances, no support. Pass the amendment to assure that American taxpayers won’t have to pay for insurance for illegals and then more people will support it! It really is that simple. The Obama admin. has to earn our trust just like every other admin. So far he’s not doing very well. He’s got communists and socialists in the White House that didn’t have to be vetted. Thats crooked, there’s just no way around that. EVERYONE should be vetted!

    Bush had ONE czar and that was after Hur. Katrina and then let him go when he wasn’t needed anymore.

    And I have no problem with you contacting other people.. thanks for letting me know though… my point was that with William coming back it will divert attention away from this issue that you and others are not longer able to debate.

    Like

  101. obama the antichrist said

    i would love to help out with conservative recruiting AHAHAHA. but this blog has got me thinking i am not much of a conservative. im more like my own OTA branch of conservatism…
    ahahahah join me…gay marriage is ok abortion isnt (unless there is proven rape or incest). health insurance needs to be affordable but you pay for your own. if a company is going bankrupt do not bail them out. seperation of church and state was made up in a letter not the constitution. independance on oil but do not overfund alternative fueling. mainstream media is an offbroadway production that doesnt need news just entertainment(ie olberman, beck). no spreading the wealth. the next party…OTAC!!!! ahahaha i prob forgot alot but actually this blog made me question somethings i just took for granted. 😀 YAY

    Like

  102. kay~ms said

    I posted a comment. Ota… I would question your statement about abortion being ok for rape or incest cases but I have too many other debates going right now.

    Like

  103. obama the antichrist said

    kay if you were raped and got pregnant or your dad raped you and got you pregnant would you keep the baby? i as a man would never want a woman to suffer birthing spawn of her nightmare. see not all conservatives agree with OTAC!

    Like

  104. kay~ms said

    “Fact”Check.org says…

    ” In fact, the House bill (the only bill to be formally introduced in its entirety) specifically says that no federal money would be spent on giving illegal immigrants health coverage:

    H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

    Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

    I like the way they cover themselves by saying “nothing in this subtitle” (no duh, anyone can see that!) and “in fact” as in “in writing”. It is “in fact” on the bill, that’s not the question… the question is: will this portion of the bill be properly enforced? Has there ever been a time when something was “in fact” on paper but not in reality? Yes.
    But “fact”Check doesn’t address that at all. It didn’t address the concerns that I posted here..the same concerns that have been mentioned in the media (unbiased media that is) and that they should have addressed.

    No mention of the republicans trying to get the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program amendment added which is an E-Verify for government benefits (and that the democrats rejected it). As in what is written in legislation against employing illegal immigrants. Laws mean little without the willingness and effective means of enforcement but no mention of that FACT by “Fact”check. “Fact”check is worthless. I suspect “Fact”check is secretly liberaly biased… imagine that.

    Like

  105. kay~ms said

    OTA… do you actually think I haven’t thought about the other side of the coin? Anyone who takes your stance of allowing abortion exceptions is missing the point of why most people are against abortion. At the moment of conception is when Christians believe that the soul is given. To abort a fetus at any stage is denying that person their right to life. That person didn’t commit the crime yet they are the ones who are being punished.

    Like

  106. princessxxx said

    http://www.healthreform.gov/

    kay, read this and tell me what you think.

    Like

  107. Princessxxx said

    WorldNetDaily.com can best be explained by its mission statement:

    “WorldNetDaily.com Inc. is an independent news company dedicated to uncompromising journalism, seeking truth and justice and revitalizing the role of the free press as a guardian of liberty. We remain faithful to the traditional and central role of a free press in a free society – as a light exposing wrongdoing, corruption and abuse of power. http://www.wnd.com/About%20WND

    Kay, speculation is not seeking truth and justice. and it’s not news.
    Farah posted the article because he wants his christian sheep to believe that Barack Obama is the anti-christ.

    i’m not amazed at all how christians try to make excuses for their bad behavior.
    if you seriously believe that there is nothing wrong with a so called “christian news service” publishing such false accusations, then there is something wrong with you.

    oh and kay, you said on comment #90 “And P, I have to honestly say that based on this comment to me… I don’t have much confidence in your ability to judge me fairly and unbiasedly on my debate with William…”

    wow, don’t you remember what William said? it’s not supposed to be a “debate’ but a discussion. and here you are with that, “i’m going to win this debate” attitude, again.
    not off to a very good start.

    besides, i don’t judge.
    (lol, that is a joke)

    Like

  108. obama the antichrist said

    so kay you want someone to suffer taking care of their nightmares spawn? is that right to them? not at all. now if it was their decision to have sex then by all means they should not be aloud to kill their child. but if it was forced upon them they shouldnt have to deal with that. and kay i am a christian so no need to lecture me on what christians believe. and your arugument “That person didn’t commit the crime yet they are the ones who are being punished.” can be applied to the pregnant woman/girl. they didnt commit the crime yet they have to carry around for 9 months their nightmares spawn and then have to take care of it. does that seem right to you? I as a christian would never want anyone to have to suffer that.

    Like

  109. princessxxx said

    good going obama the antichrist. i don’t think you are stupid.

    kay, here is more on world net daily and there deceit.

    http://padresteve.wordpress.com/2009/04/01/the-unprincipled-world-of-world-net-daily/

    Like

  110. obama the antichrist said

    “i dont think you are stupid” was it sarcasm or were you serious ahahahahaha

    Like

  111. princessxxx said

    no, usually i am being sarcastic, but i really think you are a-ok. not stupid at all.

    i heard this line on “flipping out” last nite.
    “i’m not a religious person, but i often pray for people to make fun of.

    that crazy homo, jeff lewis.

    anyway, like i said, i’m goofing on people most of the time. i don’t mean harm.

    Like

  112. kay~ms said

    I’ll check that link out P…

    OTA… you are still missing the point… yes BOTH situations are bad. But what you are arguing here is that two wrongs will make it right. That is not the case. You cannot justify commiting yet another wrong in order to “make it right”. Of course it would be horrible for a woman to have to endure further reminders of what happen to her. But it is evern worse to deny someone their whole entire life that was intended for them but taken away. As a Christian what do you actually think God wants in this situation? God will help her thru. He can even help her to love her child! To understand that it’s not the fault of the child for what their father did. I don’t think you are approaching this situation from a Christian standpoint.

    Like

  113. So kay, I hope I won’t miss anything… Sometimes, there’s so much information I can’t answer to everything, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have an answer.

    You said:
    “first, I know that I’ve been behind on answering your counter arguments… please, any arguments that are standing out to you right now.. bring them forward and I will address them, but do it one at a time.”

    In fact, it’s not the problem. I’m being humble, I don’t want to force you to recognize when you make mistakes (like the blood is blue 😀 ).
    The issue is when you accuse other people of not answering your arguments, when we do it all the time.

    “As I said earlier, many of your arguments are just responses with no substance, you seem to think that that will work.”

    Then what is the difference between responses (That you explicitely requested) and counter-arguments?

    Obama’s certificate seem pretty substantial to me, as are the old newspapers.
    And when I argue about moral issues, I brought examples and arguments as good as yours.

    “I don’t have time right now to address these “counter arguments”. Just pick something, and I’ll address it.. pick the one thing that you are convinced that I am wrong about.. that is the one I WANT you to pick.”

    In fact, I would be personnaly interested in your answer to my argument about God who logically couldn’t be overpowerfull

    “It seems that right now it is Obama’s birth place issue.”

    Not really.
    1) I’m absolutely sure that he’s born in Hawaii.
    2) Even if he wasn’t, it has no effect on his politic, therefore it has no interest.
    3) Obama is not my president
    4) I’m as well absolutely sure that this has been made up to sully him and his partisans.

    Therefore I’m only secondarly interested in this fact.

    “2nd, you completely ignored my example / proof that Dorian ISN’T addressing my points and yet you still continue to say I am ignoring all of your (your’s, Dorian’s etc) points. What????”

    You’re ignoring all of our points because you said we haven’t any arguments. As I believe firmly that I, at least, have a few points to discuss, I stand by what I said.
    It isn’t relevant to me that Dorian hasn’t adressed one of your points. (By the way, one example is not a proof, although it’s a good hint)

    “3rd, Betty did say she wasn’t going to post anymore and yet she did… she is still reading here.. that is my belief.”

    Yep, she is still reading, and posting randomly. I doubt that she would liek to enter in a debate again.

    “Obviously you think that the other is the gospel truth… no chance that my belief could be accurate.”

    Well, I’m refering to what she said. If someone says that he’s *totally disinterested in the way you’re conducting the nation* (As I can remember her post), why would I question it?
    And she has all the rights to come back when she wants without signaling to me…

    “I love it when the “open minded” (liberals) are close minded, how ironic and hypocritical.”

    And I love when the “charity” and “anti-individualists” conservatives refuse to heal illegals, how ironic and hypocritical.
    I’m not being close-minded about Betty, in fact i don’t really care, it’s her choice to debate, or just read, or answer when she wants… I’ve just said that she stated that she was disinterested.

    “Again, you are wrong. Many government policies are against God.”

    So, tell me what the birthplace of Obama has anything to do with God.
    The government policies that could concern God are the ones about serious and profond societal questions (like abortion, for example.)

    “Bill Keller is speaking out against these policies.”

    No, he is speaking about Obama being not born in the USA. It’s not a governement policie.

    “You don’t understand Christianity (the concept of serving God) and it shows here.”

    You have your understanding, and I have mine. To me, mine is closer to God’s Will. And I have arguments to assert my belief. And this, even if I don’t believe in God himself, and even if I’m not deist.

    “Abortion for example. It is killing God’s creation, it is against His will, and the Government is allowing it.”

    THIS is a societal issue where Religion and religious people have EVERY right to speak, and more, SHOULD express their point of view.
    The birth of Obama is not.

    “Citizens have a RIGHT to critisize government for ANY reason ESPECIALLY for the reason to save human life.”

    Granted. I absolutely agree. But for some subjects (the major part), religion can’t and shouldn’t be invoked. It’s like: *I think this road is a bad idea and it’s God’s Will and everyone against me is the Devil!*

    “Please don’t assume that you can now tell people how to preach.”

    Well, it’s true that in France, religious leaders usually don’t get preachy. But when it’s time for the sermon, they stand aside all political opinions, and ask for love, peace for palestinians and israelis, not hurting children, or Harry Potter (Yes, I had one sermon from a Harry Potter fan priest^^) things like that.

    “And as long as the earth is populated by humans, religion and politics will NEVER be separate. It’s unavoidable. Dream on on that one liberals. Yet another ignorant liberal view.”

    You’re 100% Ignorant on this. Come to France. We’ve made it.

    “And lastly (for now) please don’t imply that I don’t want illegals to get emergency medical care.”

    I was sure of it (of course, you’re human), but you implied that *Oh My God if the bill pass the illegals are going to get health care!!!!* which is explicitely refused by the bill, it seems.
    And why don’t you answer to the question? Are you ok to pay for those who need to be healed in your own country or not?

    If there are some naughty illegals that will get healthcare nevertheless, it won’t change anything that’s already happening now.

    “I never said that and I believe it is yet ANOTHER (I’m losing count now) liberal tactic to divert from the issue which you ignored!!! instead you made a horrible accusation against me that very few human beings are capable of!! And you know that! You are trying to divert the attention away from the point at hand!! This Hors IS a perfect example of those common liberal low down dirty tactics that you all seem to be using more and more lately. YOu think your desparation doesn’t show? It does.”

    Take a deep breath, maybe a cold shower, it will go away.
    I’m not feeling cornered here. In fact, I know nothing of the bill, except what some of you brought up as examples, and I’m not interested in knowing more, it’s not my country.

    I just makes some notes.

    “Just be honest.. try it. It’s working great for me.”

    You mean, like *another notch on my keyboard*?

    “You all are really getting your butts kicked here.”

    We are all different, Kay. We don’t reason like you, as masses. And, as previously noted, I’m not feeling particularly concerned. I mean, I’m more the societal debater and the french political debater kind.

    “And I’m sick of having to tippy toe around your delicate egos. It’s ridiculous.”

    Ah? When did you got carefull about not calling opponents *greedy*, *poisonous*, *dishonest*, *ignorant*? I missed something?

    You said:
    “The question is NOT “do I want illegals to get emergency medical care”!!”

    True, emergency and non-emergency are too different problems. So let me rephrase it: Do you want illegals to get medical care?

    “The question is..” Will illegals be covered? (not talking about EMERGENCY medical care here). Was Obama lying????” And I’m not talking about technicalities (technically he isn’t lying) I’m talking about the truth… what will happen? Reason/ prove to me that we can believe what is written in the bill!!!”

    It’s written in the bill. Period. Are the illegals covered today? Not to my informations. So it won’t change anything that is already the case.

    Murder is prohibited by law, but murders are committed. Nevertheless, it’s still a good law, no?

    “I’ve reasoned that we can’t!!”

    What were your arguments exactly? I fear I may be a bit lost about the reasoning you’re talking about. There was a lot of posts, and I lost the trail.

    “And so far no one is reasoning otherwise! You all are just making ignorant comments of my ignorance! How IGNORANT!! How REVERSE IGNORANT of you all!!!”

    Yes, we’re all part of the conspiracy.

    “And the reason that people use so many capitals and exclamation points is because of the people who are JUST NOT GETTING IT!!!!!”

    The ones that are reading Bill Keller’s Devotionals are usually the kind prepared to accept what he is saying without capital letters.
    But of course, if there wasn’t exclamation points, people wouldn’t get the point. A few exclamations points are always a good argument, as I say.

    (By the way, I use sometimes capital letters, to a reasonable extent. As I have already said, I thinl that the key is moderation)

    “This is the counter arguement from the WND.com website:

    The “certification of live birth” posted online and widely touted as “Obama’s birth certificate” does not in any way prove he was born in Hawaii, since the same “short-form” document is easily obtainable for children not born in Hawaii.”

    Then, why does it says *eligible for any presentation in court*?

    “The true “long-form” birth certificate – which includes information such as the name of the birth hospital and attending physician – is the only document that can prove Obama was born in Hawaii, but to date he has not permitted its release for public or press scrutiny.”

    Well, some officials have seen it. I personnaly trust them. Corrupting so much people in a democratic country to commit something that they know will get the attention of everyone is very difficult.

    “And that is another key point.. why has he not PERMITTED the release of his long form birth certificate? What is your answer for that point?”

    And what are your answers to the 3 points I have mentioned?
    I don’t know why he hasn’t permitted it, but can you mention me a reference paper which states that he forbidd the release of his long form birth certificate?

    “And as to your claim that it is considered as evidence in any court decision… it apparently wasn’t good enough in judge James Robertson’s court room… he tried to threaten an attorney with financial sanctions for “frivolousness”…”

    I haven’t heard of this story, being french. I don’t think I’ve understood it all… Could you explain a bit more to me who are the protagonists?

    “Now here is going to be the real problem for you and everyone else who claims that the “certification of live birth” is a “certified” document and therefore should be accepted.

    If you go to this link and scroll down.. you’ll see ANOTHER “certified” document. This birth certificate is certification of Obama’s birth in Kenya!

    Now what are you going to do?? Every argument you have given me that says we should accept Obama’s “birth certificate” posted on the internet as fact, can also be said for this Kenya birth certificate.
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109363

    You should down a bit more, my dear Kay. Down this birth certificate, the author shows doubts about the reality of this second certificate, and gives evidence for that.
    And if it was so much important, why did this guy tried to sell it on Ebay?

    “See… you can’t always believe everything you read and hear. Documents are forged all the time. Again, just because you deem it to be true, that doesn’t make it true. Claims of truth need to be backed up with valid proof, not just your belief without any research to support it. You and others imply that it’s not right to question, that we should just accept what is told to us… I’m still trying to understand that one.”

    I perfectly agree that we all have the right, and the duty, to question. But I’ve backed my opinion with several points (3, I’ve noted, but there are certainly more), and you still haven’t explained any of them.
    And I’ve noted that it was a very low attack. McCain eligibility could as well be questioned, on this basis.

    “And please read that entire link concerning Nancy Pelosi and what appears to be her knowledge beforehand of the problem with Obama’s eligibility.”

    I see that, nevertheless, Nancy Pelosi signed both documents. She would be well placed to know that everything that she does can be tracked, and that no politician can hide something like that at this level. I doubt that she would like to cover things up.

    I think I’ve answered everything, I hope I haven’t left anything apart…

    Like

  114. obama the antichrist said

    do you think a mother would be fit to raise a child after a horrible instance. would the child be better off alive enduring a mother who can not fully love her child or a child who will never know the hardships of the life he will have. i dont think you are being fair to the child by saying he has to endure his mothers either a) unloving nurturing to it or b) a mother who needs serious help or c) all the above. noone wins in this situation.also i would never force an abortion onto a woman either.

    Like

  115. kay~ms said

    ok, I’m just going to respond as I go along…

    You said:

    I said:
    “first, I know that I’ve been behind on answering your counter arguments… please, any arguments that are standing out to you right now.. bring them forward and I will address them, but do it one at a time.”

    you said: In fact, it’s not the problem. I’m being humble, I don’t want to force you to recognize when you make mistakes (like the blood is blue ).
    The issue is when you accuse other people of not answering your arguments, when we do it all the time.

    Me: First, I didn’t know you wanted me to acknowledge my misconception that our blood is blue. Sorry… I was wrong, I thought our blood was blue. And I don’t want you to be humble, honestly is seems like an excuse because you can’t find anything to confront me with. And it isn’t being pridefull to address times when I’ve been wrong, especially when I’m asking you to. And.. I’m really not talking about technicalities..like my lack of knowledge in science. I’m talking about things we’ve debated.

    2nd.. Hors, no one has yet to answer my points about illegals receiving healthcare. Yeah, Dorian keeps commenting back to me BUT she just repeats the claim that I am wrong without anything to back it up. This is just one example of many here where I’ve made good arguments and no one responds. I am not going to let you(all) get away with making the false claim that you all “answer me all the time”.. I just presented a perfect example of how you (all) do not.
    This is something else that I’ve observed from liberals mostly but a few conservatives also… When you know I am right, instead of acknowledging it, you make false claims and try to slickly pass them off as truths, example: “we answer you all the time”. I’m sorry (Dorian) but this is yet ANOTHER liberal tactic.

    The next thing you know, you all will be trying to tell me that I need to seek professional help…. you know, like what a cheating husband tells his wife when she confronts him and KNOWS he is lying. Dirty, dirty , DIRTY tactics. That is what it looks like to me sometimes. It’s not right. You are not as bad as the others though… this has been going on since the beginning.

    And I just read further down, on your post, and found this:

    “You’re ignoring all of our points because you said we haven’t any arguments. As I believe firmly that I, at least, have a few points to discuss, I stand by what I said.
    It isn’t relevant to me that Dorian hasn’t adressed one of your points. (By the way, one example is not a proof, although it’s a good hint)”

    Well, if you go up to the first quote of post here of yours…

    you said: “The issue is when you accuse other people of not answering your arguments, when we do it all the time.”

    You use the word “we”. so you can’t say what Dorian does isn’t relevant because you are including her in your defense. And this wasn’t the first time you said “we”. That is why I included Dorian’s lack of arguments. Basically it was because you were coming to her defense.

    And did you answer my arguments concerning if illegals will get coverage? Maybe you did and I missed it?

    ok.. and here’s this…

    “3rd, Betty did say she wasn’t going to post anymore and yet she did… she is still reading here.. that is my belief.”

    Yep, she is still reading, and posting randomly. I doubt that she would liek to enter in a debate again.

    Now, it seems that you originaly corrected me when I said that Betty is choosing to not comment on this topic.. you “corrected” me by saying that she said she wasn’t going to post anymore and THAT is why she hasn’t commented. THEN I said that I believe she is reading and that she has commented since making her “exit”.

    WELL… it turns out that she is still reading and commenting here… and I still suspect that she has been following this illegals / healthcare debate ESPECIALLY since she did comment on it.

    What I’m saying is that it would be nice to at least acknowledge that your “correction” was possibly incorrect. And btw.. she did also enter into the debate.

    Just like I would like an acknowledgement that it ISN’T “crazy, ridiculous, racist” etc. to question if Obama truly was a citizen when he was born.

    Yes, if you don’t mind, I would like to stay on this subject and then you can pick the next one.

    Speaking of which… this is such a great example of liberal tactics in action… I wasn’t laughing with Chris Mathews here, I was laughing at him… I’ve never seen such a fake laugh. This shows what liberals do when they don’t have an argument.. they laugh at you! And try to make you feel like an idiot. You know, that tactic that school age kids use all the time. How pathetic… He does go on to try and argue with Delay but his arguments are ridiculous… Tom Delay is NOT the president, his citizenship is not quite as important. And excuse me… but Americans have a right to want to make sure our president is legally our president!

    And please, you all, don’t throw out that argument, like Mathews, that no one else is asked to prove their citizenship… (the claim that it’s because Obama is black). Political oponents do it all the time if there is even the slightest possibility of it being true. John Mccain was force to prove his citizenship.

    Like

  116. kay~ms said

    OTA, you are STILL not getting it. Do you think it is fair to the child to make the judgement yourself on whether it’s life is worth living or not? No one should have the right to make that judgement for someone else. In this situation, adoption is a common choice. The child will be loved by a couple who cannot have their own children…see, there is a win situation here… the child gets their life and the couple get a child to love. And the mother doesn’t have to spend the rest of her life knowing that she took away her OWN child’s life.

    Like

  117. kay~ms said

    OTA said: “.also i would never force an abortion onto a woman either.”

    OTA, I’m glad you respect a woman’s right to choose. Now all you need to do is respect a person’s right to their life.

    Like

  118. kay~ms said

    Okay.. and reading further is seems that you’re saying that the issue of Obama’s citizenship is not a religious issue and therefore Bill should leave it alone?

    you said: “So, tell me what the birthplace of Obama has anything to do with God.

    and

    “THIS is a societal issue where Religion and religious people have EVERY right to speak, and more, SHOULD express their point of view.
    The birth of Obama is not.”

    and

    “You have your understanding, and I have mine. To me, mine is closer to God’s Will. And I have arguments to assert my belief.”

    yes, and Bill has his understanding of how to serve God. You shouldn’t tell him how to serve God. And also how or what things he can disagree with concerning his government.

    What you are doing now is deciding how people should fight government policies. There is obviously more than one way to do it. And if the president doesn’t have legal citizenship then I think that is the BEST way to do it!!! Of course Obama supporters don’t like that and so try to make false accusations of “craziness” etc. because there is nothing else they can do! TOO BAD! It’s real simple.. Obama just needs to show his real birth certificate!

    Hors, you are now trying to divert the attention away from the actuality of the truth of Obama’s citizenship by arguing that A) it has nothing to do with religious issues? B) “it has no affect on his politics” ..what??

    As a tax payer and an American citizen, I have a right to want my president to be legal, to meet all of the requirements for becoming the leader of my country. Your aguments are very ignornant from my point of view as a citizen. If my government LET him become president without meeting the required criteria.. I want to know!!

    And yes, I don’t like where Obama is taking this country so that is ESPECIALLY why I want to know if he is LEGALLY our president or not!

    You and all of the other liberals think he’s doing just fine so you stoop to the level of calling us racists for wanting to know the truth.. Oh there’s that word again..truth.. that dirty, pesky word that always seems to get in the way.

    You said: “I’m not being close-minded about Betty,”

    I didn’t say you were close minded about Betty… I said you were close minded about my assumption of why she wasn’t commenting. You made an ignorant judgement, primarily because you didn’t want me to be right. Just like the ignorant judgement that the belief that the artwork on the Rockafellar building was socialist was “ridiculous” or something like that. You made a quick and I’m sorry to say but ignorant judgement. And why? Because I believe, in this instance, you didn’t like Glen Beck.

    And I feel that all of you are doing the same with the issue with illegals getting healthcare and also the REAL possibility that Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii!

    Basically, it seems that it is yet another common thing with liberals… you make immediate, ignorant judgements against anything that is against your political views…Without doing any research what so ever first.

    And then look what happens?? You get stuck! Which you wouldn’t be stuck at all if you could just admit the possibility that you might have been wrong. But instead you all just dig yourselves deeper and deeper into a hole.

    When I form an opinion, I do so on the basis of what I’ve heard or read, not whether it goes against the conservative / republican views.

    you said: “You should down a bit more, my dear Kay. Down this birth certificate, the author shows doubts about the reality of this second certificate, and gives evidence for that.
    And if it was so much important, why did this guy tried to sell it on Ebay?

    First.. what? un-biasness on WND?? Note to Princess.

    Second, was the evidence you’re talking about that WND has another Kenya birth certificate that doesn’t look like that one? So now there are 3… you’re missing the point. There is no proof that this certificate is fake! Why can’t either of these be accepted on the same basis as Obama’s Hawaii one?
    The point is that Obama’s Hawaii “certification of birth” is not good enough proof. For several different reasons that were stated here. Again, it may be good enough for you but not for a lot of us.

    Plus, the guy filed an affidavit (he can go to jail) that the document is real. google it.

    So, really, now were’ down to the birth anouncement in the paper, which as Delay pointed out in that youtube video, is NOT an official document for starters. And it still leaves that question of why Obama won’t just produce his long form birth certificate.

    I’ll post more on this later. and also address the Illegals / healthcare part.

    Me: “And I’m sick of having to tippy toe around your delicate egos. It’s ridiculous.”

    You: Ah? When did you got carefull about not calling opponents *greedy*, *poisonous*, *dishonest*, *ignorant*? I missed something?

    Yeah, I knew I was going to get called on that one… I actually do try sometimes but it is hard.

    Like

  119. kay~ms said

    I have a comment awaiting moderation.

    Like

  120. Hey, leave me out of it.

    Like

  121. obama the antichrist said

    kay now you are talking about an average abortion where the person chose to have sex. i am talking about when a woman has a forced pregnancy there is no couple involved for the child to recieve love from.

    Like

  122. Princessxxx said

    HI BETTY, BYE BETTY.

    Like

  123. Princessxxx said

    hey kay, did you see these fat sloppy retards from sarasota on glenn beck?

    Like

  124. Princessxxx said

    how about this bit of stupidity. boiling a frog, what a douche.
    i know kay, it wasn’t a real frog, but the whole story was fake, too.
    what point was this? that glenn beck is an insane liar.
    glenn beck, the man that cries crocodile tears and laughs at you while he is doing it.

    Like

  125. dorian said

    good morning, blog!

    hi, betty! bye, betty!

    glenn beck in the morning. thanks, p!
    he does make me feel like eating donuts. the chocolate ones with sprinkles on top.
    i like watching him cry croc tears and laughing at the same time. i think he laughs at himself. he thinks he’s cute . he’s probably thinking ‘let’s see if they fall for this’ – kinda like lawman used to do when he’d drop little bombshells to incite a debate then he sits back and has popcorn and has himself a good laugh. until tothewire tells him to stop it.
    kay you know i don’t like arguing at length with you. or with anyone else. especially if you expect me to decimate every word point for point. hors is the only one who likes doing that. and ota is good at that too, i remember him taking on the caveman. i’m the laziest person on this blog, with short attention span to boot. in grade school my mother was called in twice by about my laziness and inattentiveness. i haven’t changed. so forgive my not finishing my ‘arguments’ with you already.
    love, dorian the sloth

    Like

  126. kay~ms said

    OTA, I don’t understand what you are saying here…

    “kay now you are talking about an average abortion where the person chose to have sex. i am talking about when a woman has a forced pregnancy there is no couple involved for the child to recieve love from.”

    The woman who has the “forced” pregnancy (in other words “murder prevention” pregnancy) can and often does give her child up for adoption to a couple who cannot have a child.

    This situation displays the good that can come from something bad. I’ve heard many many times, people, who have been thru the worst situations, say that they would not change anything because of the good that came from it. One of which is becoming closer to God.

    Everything does happen for a reason, sometimes it’s obvious, many times it isn’t obvious but that is where your trust and faith in God comes in. And it does get you thru.

    Like

  127. kay~ms said

    No, P, I missed Glenn yesterday, thanks for posting those videos. Interesting.. I tried to find out which school they are talking about but was unsuccessful. BTW… that one son who spoke seemed pretty smart to me.

    When I was doing my google search though, I came across this… which I found interesting.

    http://www.bookerrising.net/2009/08/black-conservatives-defend-glenn-beck.html

    This is the school my daughter went to in Sarasota.

    That is such a bunch of crap… sneaking in socialist ideology in schools. Again… were supposed to trust these people when they do stuff like this?

    As for the other video… Glenn Beck is really good at what he does, completely original – it seems to me anyway.. I am liking him more and more. That frog thing was great…

    And I did get his point. Obama’s was stupid, if he wanted to get his agendas thru he should have been more subtle about it ( a little more sneaky like his fellow liberals). All he’s done is awakened alot of people. No one wants the kind of country he’s pushing for, no one with any intelligence anyway.

    Like

  128. Princessxxx said

    boy, it is amazing how 2 people look at the same thing and see something so totally different.
    i don’t even know how to respond to that.

    to each his own i guess.

    also, speaking of glenn beck crying, dorian, i was at the bookstore checking our his new book “arguing with idiots” and on the back cover, a photo of glenn crying, with his finger pointing at his tears, and a big crap eating grin on his face.
    boy he is playing the sheep like a fiddle. he no more cares about the regular joes than i do.
    what a racket, only a satanic mormom would do such a thing.

    Like

  129. dorian said

    kay – school is socialist. catholic and other private not so much. the only way to teach children your very own choice curriculum is to home school them. i think glenn is entertaining, but i have to put him on mute. his historical facts are off kilter but he wins points for imagination. i thank princess for posting these things here because this is where i’ve been getting my u.s news lately.
    so now you think your prez s/b more sneaky but then you’ll call him on lying if he does. obama won 64,385,746 popular votes and 349 electoral votes. so many americans without intelligence….
    how many people have the tea party mob mentality, i wonder? because they are the intelligent ones, if one were to think in kay terms. everybody under the leadership of limbaugh, beck and their other exalted leaders.

    p, beck has even our kay convinced. i guess she dislikes obama and the liberals more than satanic mormons. 😉

    Like

  130. Princessxxx said

    dorian, kay, i have been watching beck for 2 weeks solid now, doing my homework. fortunately, it rained today, cable is out and i get a respite.

    i apologize for posting him so early in the a.m. and make you think of doughnuts, but he ‘is’ satan’s doughboy.

    i admit, i get almost physically sick to my stomach watching him. he is as fraudulent as any televangelist, and he speaks to his audience as if they are dimwitted children,(which i feel most probably are)

    but you know who really grosses me out? michelle “me so horney” malkin. she reminds me of vietnamese hooker, and i swear to god, last nite i watched her and she had a big herpes on her lip and i thought i was going to hurl. my mind filled with racist thoughts about her. i kept saying over and over, “go back to hanoi, hooker.”
    oh, lol, lol, lol 🙂

    Like

  131. Princessxxx said

    check out the mesmerizing herpe. i hate this whore. sean hannity, too.

    Like

  132. dorian said

    p, you don’t make a good racist. this woman is, though. she’s not from hanoi, she’s filipina! but then again if you’re racist there ain’t no diff., right? she not white.
    what i can’t stand is an educated racist. other than they’re an oxymoron, it’s really sad that God didn’t give their good intelligence to someone else that will do good for humanity.
    her bio says she was a music major and played concert piano. what a waste of talent.
    she probably got beat up in grade school.

    Like

  133. Princessxxx said

    i don’t like this woman regardless of her race.
    she makes her living off of being a hater.
    plus everyone knows when you have a great big herpe on your lip, don’t go on t.v.
    it’s just common sense.

    Like

  134. dorian said

    yeah i saw her interviewed by matt lauer. she’s a real angry beatch.
    God gave her herpes just before she went in front of the camera for this video.
    i like this one as much as i like the coultergeist. c’mon now – how can anyone like
    people who spew hate against anyone and buy their books and make them rich?

    Like

  135. kay~ms said

    Wow.. you guys are relentless! I don’t have any problem with her at all. And P, you know you have a crush on Beck… I can admit that I do.

    Dorian, I agree that school is socialist in some respects but isn’t the ultimate goal to get good grades, go to college and then make good money?

    What’s that book? everything I need to know I learned in kindergarten? It’s a combination of socialist values (helping each other) and being rewarded for hard work. Both are good lessons to learn.

    Like

  136. princessxxx said

    kay sez: “Dorian, I agree that school is socialist in some respects but isn’t the ultimate goal to get good grades, go to college and then make good money?”

    is that from the sermon on the mount?

    Like

  137. dorian said

    sounds good to me, kay. right on. yeah there’s a book like that. i also learn from my dogs. like unconditional love. but it’s hard to maintain.

    p, i believe that’s from obama’s speech to the school children.

    kay, i hope bill isn’t the jealous kind…

    Like

  138. kay~ms said

    And what exactly is your implication P?? That is the whole idea behind getting a good education isn’t it? And no secret is made of that to children. They are taught capitalist and socialist ideologies. That was my point.

    Dorian, I still like Bill too. And incase anyone is wondering… I still stand behind Bill’s article “Glenn Beck’s Deception”.

    And now I’m off to have my “DISCUSSION” with William…

    Like

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