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The White House vs. Fox News

Posted by dorian on October 23, 2009

Behind the War Between White House and Fox


Published: October 22, 2009

WASHINGTON — Late last month, the senior White House adviser David Axelrod and Roger Ailes, chairman and chief executive of Fox News, met in an empty Palm steakhouse before it opened for the day, neutral ground secured for a secret tête-à-tête.

 

Roger Ailes reached out to David Axelrod to address rising tensions between Fox News and the White House.

 

Mr. Ailes, who had reached out to Mr. Axelrod to address rising tensions between the network and the White House, told him that Fox’s reporters were fair, if tough, and should be considered separate from the Fox commentators who were skewering President Obama nightly, according to people briefed on the meeting. Mr. Axelrod said it was the view of the White House that Fox News had blurred the line between news and anti-Obama advocacy.

What both men took to be the start of a frank but productive dialogue proved, in retrospect, more akin to the round of pre-Pearl Harbor peace talks between the United States and Japan.

By the following weekend, officials at the White House had decided that if anything, it was time to take the relationship to an even more confrontational level. The spur: Executives at other news organizations, including The New York Times, had publicly said that their newsrooms had not been fast enough in following stories that Fox News, to the administration’s chagrin, had been heavily covering through the summer and early fall — namely, past statements and affiliations of the White House adviser Van Jones that ultimately led to his resignation and questions surrounding the community activist group Acorn.

At the same time, Fox News had continued a stream of reports rankling White House officials and liberal groups that monitor its programming for bias.

Those reports included a critical segment on the schools safety official Kevin Jennings, with the on-screen headline “School Czar’s Past May Be Too Radical”; urgent news coverage of a video showing schoolchildren “singing the praises, quite literally, of the president,” which the Fox News contributor Tucker Carlson later called “pure Khmer Rouge stuff”; and the daily anti-Obama salvos from Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity.

There followed, beginning in earnest more than two weeks ago, an intensified volley of White House comments describing Fox as “not a news network.”

“It was an amalgam of stories covered, and our assessment of how others were dealing with those stories, that caused us to comment,” Mr. Axelrod said in describing the administration’s thinking.

The heated back-and-forth between the White House and Fox News has brought equal delight to Fox’s conservative commentators, who revel in the fight, and liberal Democrats, who have long characterized the network as a purveyor of right-wing propaganda rather than fact-based journalism.

Speaking privately at the White House on Monday with a group of mostly liberal columnists and commentators, including Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann of MSNBC and Maureen Dowd, Frank Rich and Bob Herbert of The New York Times, Mr. Obama himself gave vent to sentiments about the network, according to people briefed on the conversation.

Then, in an interview with NBC News on Wednesday, the president went public. “What our advisers have simply said is that we are going to take media as it comes,” he said. “And if media is operating, basically, as a talk radio format, then that’s one thing. And if it’s operating as a news outlet, then that’s another.”

In a sign of discomfort with the White House stance, Fox’s television news competitors refused to go along with a Treasury Department effort on Tuesday to exclude Fox from a round of interviews with the executive-pay czar Kenneth R. Feinberg that was to be conducted with a “pool” camera crew shared by all the networks. That followed a pointed question at a White House briefing this week by Jake Tapper, an ABC News correspondent, about the administration’s treatment of “one of our sister organizations.”

White House officials continue to interact with Fox News correspondents whom they have complimented as professional, including Major Garrett and Wendell Goler.

But Michael Clemente, senior vice president for news and editorial programming at Fox, said the White House was conflating the network’s commentary with its news coverage. That, Mr. Clemente said, “would be like Fox News blaming the White House senior staff for the Washington Redskins’ losing record.”

“I think we’re doing the job we’re supposed to be doing,” he said, “and we do it as well as anyone.”

Mr. Clemente suggested that the fight was part of a larger White House strategy to marginalize critics. He cited a report in Politico about a strategy session in August at which officials discussed plans to move more aggressively against opponents.

White House officials acknowledged that Fox News did come up at that meeting, although not, they said, as a central topic. A number of issues had been added to the White House’s list of grievances by then, including the network’s heavy coverage of some of the more intensely anti-administration activity at town-hall-style meetings on health care and Mr. Beck’s remark that Mr. Obama “has a deep-seated hatred for white people.”

The first real shot from the White House, however, came when aides excluded “Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace” — which they had previously treated as distinct from the network — from a round of presidential interviews with Sunday morning news programs in mid-September.

“We simply decided to stop abiding by the fiction, which is aided and abetted by the mainstream press, that Fox is a traditional news organization,” said Dan Pfeiffer, the deputy White House communications director. Later that week, White House officials said, they noticed a column by Clark Hoyt, the public editor of The Times, in which Jill Abramson, one of the paper’s two managing editors, described her newsroom’s “insufficient tuned-in-ness to the issues that are dominating Fox News and talk radio.” The Washington Post’s executive editor, Marcus Brauchli, had already expressed similar concerns about his newsroom.

White House officials said comments like those had focused them on a need to make their case that Fox had an ideological bent undercutting its legitimacy as a news organization.

Fox News Channel certainly seems to be enjoying a row it considers ratings candy, having devoted hours of news coverage and commentary to the fight.

But White House officials said they were happy to have at least started a public debate about Fox.

“This is a discussion that probably had to be had about their approach to things,” Mr. Axelrod said. “Our concern is other media not follow their lead.”

A version of this article appeared in print on October 23, 2009, on page A16 of the New York Times edition

————————————————————————————-

Fox News slogans: “Fair & Balanced”
“We Report. You Decide.”
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59 Responses to “The White House vs. Fox News”

  1. kayms said

    “In a sign of discomfort with the White House stance, Fox’s television news competitors refused to go along with a Treasury Department effort on Tuesday to exclude Fox from a round of interviews with the executive-pay czar Kenneth R. Feinberg that was to be conducted with a “pool” camera crew shared by all the networks. That followed a pointed question at a White House briefing this week by Jake Tapper, an ABC News correspondent, about the administration’s treatment of “one of our sister organizations.””

    That says it all about what kind of President and administration we have and where our government is trying to take this country.

    The liberaly biased media does deserve a pat on the back for standing up to them on this.

    Like

  2. kayms said

    From Bill Keller’s Daily devotional for Oct. 22nd…

    Net neutrality is simply a fancy name for the government controlling the
    content of the Internet! The freedom to proclaim the Truth of the Bible and
    the Gospel of Jesus Christ is slowly being taken away . . . IN THE UNITED
    STATES! I really take no pleasure in saying, “I told you so.” It is
    amazing to go back over 10 yearrs of Daily Devotionals, and read the warnings I
    have shared with you regarding our ability to freely proclaim the Truth of
    the Bible and the Gospel message. I vividly recall countless emails telling
    me I was paranoid, this was the United States and this would never happen,
    and others who simply thought I belonged in a straight jacket.

    Well, let me take a moment and tell you where we are in the last days of
    October in the year 2009. Look at television. When you go back to the 50s
    and 60s, even into the 70s, you had incredibly powerful programs that gave a
    Christian perspective of life, had great moral messages, and a family could
    sit down and watch together. I submit to you today that NONE of those
    programs would ever see the light of day if they were being presented to the
    TV executives of today. What you get on TV today is a steady diet of sex and
    violence, and storylines and characters that are in blatant rebellion to God
    and His Word!

    For 5 yearrs, the Liveprayer TV program aired on a CBS affiliate in Tampa, live
    for an hour, 5 nights a week. It was an incredibly controversial program
    because it dealt with the issues of the day and in people’s lives from a
    Biblical perspective. Two years ago, the self-appointed watchdog group of
    the Muslim community, CAIR, now the target of many Federal investigations
    for their ties to terror groups, intimidated CBS into taking the program off
    the air because they want to silence anyone in the media who has the
    audacity to tell the truth about their 1400 year-old false relgion leading
    the souls of 1.5 billion followers to hell.

    You can still go to the Christian stations and preach to the choir, which is
    what 95% of Christians on TV do. After all, the lost on secular TV aren’t
    going to buy them new jet planes or help them live like rulers of small
    nations. So they completely abandon the marketplace and go into the
    “trough” where 99% of the viewers are already Christians.

    However, if you want to take the hope and love of Christ to the masses via
    secular TV, you have only one option. That is to come up with $1 million a
    month and understand you will have to find those who truly want to see God’s
    Word spread to the lost and hurting masses to help fund it, since you will
    never find enough advertisers with the courage to be associated with such a
    program, nor can you beg for money each night since that is exactly what
    will turn off the very people you are trying to reach. Oh, and even with
    the money, you will still have a VERY HARD time finding a network who will
    carry the program!

    We are nearing a day I feared would come, and that is when the
    government would determine what content will be on the Internet. The
    million-dollar phrase is “net neutrality.” You can Google it, read both
    sides of the argument, but let me sum it up for you. The ultimate goal is
    for the government to determine what content can be on the Internet.
    Instead of running Liveprayer from an actual office, I see a day very soon
    when I will be using special connections linked to servers in foreign lands,
    having to use creative technology to get the Daily Devotiaonl out each day.
    THAT DAY IS NOT FAR AWAY!

    Like

  3. kay~ms said

    I have a comment in moderation.

    Like

  4. princessxxx said

    bill keller says it, so it must be true.

    is this the same bill keller that said god told him to dye his hair blond, the same bill keller that god told him john kerry would be elected president?..
    the same bill keller that said that there “WILL” be a terrorist attack on U.S. soil before the end of 2008?
    that gas would be $6. a gallon nationwide by 2009?
    the same bill keller that said he was going to sacrifice a live goat on his internet show?..the same bill keller that said he was going to give away for free a million of his books at barnes & nobles and borders stores, a book he never wrote.? and how’s about that PBS documentary on his “an interactive evening with liveprayer?” don’t forget his “times square” bill board he assured us would be happening very soon.

    oh yeah, she’s real reliable. that b!tch don’t know her a$$ from a hole in the ground.

    thanks for this post dorian, it’s what has been on my mind. i have a lot to say, i just hope i have the energy to say it.

    Like

  5. princessxxx said

    dorian, i was just watching rick sanchez on CNN, and he said president lincoln had journalists arrested during his administration for “dangerous reporting”. hmmm

    i tried to google it, i haven’t found anything yet, but i did come across this
    http://www.mrlincolnandnewyork.org/inside.asp?ID=32&subjectID=3

    it is about lincoln’s relationship with the “yellow” press. the same kind of crap was going on back then. fascinating but i couldn’t read it all, nausea.

    Like

  6. kay~ms said

    Yes, anyone who’s been watching Fox news, I’m sure this has been on their minds… the Obama Admin. is out to make change, that’s for sure.

    P, you don’t think it’s wrong for the government to control what we can and can’t say?

    Anyone who’s been watching Fox news knows this country is in trouble if people (the liberaly biased media as one example) don’t speak up, and soon.

    Like

  7. princessxxx said

    kay, none of this is new, nothing new under the sun, remember.

    the white house called out fox for what it really is and now fox is acting like they are being held prisoners in guantanamo bay. glenn beck even went so far as to say we are living in maoist china. get real.
    the country is in trouble alright,
    trouble that people like beck and keller can rip ignorant people off using fear tactics.
    that’s not capitalism, that is a con.

    The FBI Tells Americans to Watch Fox News, Glenn Beck, and Rush Limbaugh for REAL NEWS

    Like

  8. princessxxx said

    kay, i have no problem if the CIA wants to come to your trailer, give you the CIA LSD and duct tape your mouth. no problem at all.

    Like

  9. There may be medical treatment available some day for religious fundamentalism. Even if not, perhaps someday enough people will have enough education or awareness to not swallow that shit anymore.

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  10. Fox news and other media such as Rush Limbaugh have a right to express their opinion. There’s a fine line between allowing free speech and allowing hate speech though.

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  11. Fox news represents the views of those Americans who are really mad that Obama won. I for one applaud the direction our country has taken, and most of the rest of the world also agrees. What’s really sick are those who claim to be patriotic yet do everything they can to bring Obama down. He’s our President. Respect the office even if you don’t respect the man!

    Like

  12. dorian said

    there seems to be a twisted version of the word “patriotism” nowadays. the rightwing fringe is hoping and praying for the u.s president and his administration to fail and calling themselves patriots. back when the administration was republican, the people that did not support bush and his policies were called anti-american. talk about a double standard.

    the current administration has been too forgiving about all the hate speeches and outright lies and attacks on obama, soon as he campaigned for office. it’s about time somebody is speaking out against all the negative crap. why is it that this happens everytime there is changing of the guard from a conservative white house? lincoln and kennedy were tragic examples. it would be nice to show some nationalism and support for our country now.

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  13. What Dorian said…

    Also, how patriotic is it to sabotage the science education of America’s schoolchildren in public schools? We need to be more competitive on the global market, not less.

    The good news is that since the extreme religious right hijacked the Republican party, more and more people are seeing how crazy and out of touch with reality the village idiots are. I know America’s reputation worldwide has really suffered from all the right wing religious crap in this country that makes world news.

    Like

  14. princessxxx said

    President Obama might be shutting out a news organization in Fox News from the White House, but CNN’s Rick Sanchez says his actions are no different than past Presidents such as Richard Nixon, Franklin Roosevelt, and even Abraham Lincoln.

    Like

  15. obama the antichrist said

    TBG if you really believe that more ppl are turning left instead of right why are obamas ratings down below 50%….that doesnt make sense to me at all.

    also dorain the reason hate speech keeps coming up is because of Obamas race. if i say i dont like obama i get accused of being racist. im not racist. i dont like the white half of obama either. liberals use the race card and conservatives use the birth certificate. its all politics.

    Like

  16. Princessxxx said

    Like

  17. kayms said

    Fox news is not organizing protests against the government… Glenn Beck is. It wasn’t justified to try to exclude a news organization from the interview just because one of their commentators is actively protesting Obama’s policies, which, by the way, Obama IS actively promoting and using tax payer money to do so and neglecting other serious issue in the process.

    Fox news reports the facts… their commentators express their person views, just like any other cable news network. To say that they can’t excercise their right to protest on the same airway and that it somehow invalidates there honest reporting of facts is an excuse to try to silence the opposition.

    So is Rachel trying to say here that Obama was right to excluded Fox news? Or just that one of these is not like the other… so what… again, it doesn’t invalidate their reporting of facts and them as a valid news organization, and that she negleted to mention, is bringing forth facts that her station and all of the others ignored. And is exacly why Fox news is number 1 in ratings. People like to get ALL the facts… not just the facts that are left after going thru the liberal filters.

    Like

  18. princessxxx said

    YOU NEED TO REWATCH THE VIDEO CLIPS AGAIN KAY. ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

    speaking of facts kay. you have yet to prove that obama is working on legislation to do away with free speech.

    it is what you said, now prove it.

    and don’t feel bad, i’m always happy to correct you on your mistakes.

    Like

  19. princessxxx said

    and calling out fox news for the liars that they are does not silence them.
    it’s called free speech and even the president has that.

    Like

  20. princessxxx said

    jesus hates fox news.

    Like

  21. princessxxx said

    Like

  22. kayms said

    Princess says: “YOU NEED TO REWATCH THE VIDEO CLIPS AGAIN KAY. ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE MISTAKEN.”

    I can do that too… YOU NEED TO REWATCH THE VIDEO CLIPS AGAIN KAY. ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

    Liberals need to learn that just making a non descriptive acusatory statement does not “win” the argument.. an explanation would be nice… you know.. an actual debate?

    And you are right, calling Fox news a “liar” doesn’t silence them but excluding them from Whitehouse interviews / access sure does.

    And I’m talking about the move for “Net neutrality”… which will only give the government more control over the information we can access. And Obama has proven that he is clearly intersted in doing so.

    And also the bill that was enacted yesterday… I’m all for harsher punishments for people who hurt others out of ignorance or hate but I am equally for harsher punishements for those that are hurt that are not the victims of hate crimes. It’s all the same. All should be punished equally… harshly. What that bill does is control free speach. And again while I don’t want to hear any kkk garbage… I also don’t want to be told that I can’t claim my belief that abortion is murder.

    The goverment (Obama) is currently assulting our fundamental rights… the kind of rights that define what America is. Again, he sure is promoting change. And I and most of Americans don’t want it. It’s the warped and retarted liberal solution to our social problems. It goes completely against freedom, liberty and justice for all.

    Like

  23. kay ms said

    I have a comment in moderation.

    Like

  24. princessxxx said

    do you mean this legislation?
    The Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act

    how is making increased penalties for murdering a man because he is gay or dragging a man to his death because he is black going to interfere with free speech?

    makes no sense.

    Like

  25. princessxxx said

    and kay, how about when the bush administration did this:

    cut off msnbc,

    threatened nbc,

    had it’s political party threaten to back out of a tom brokaw moderated debate if keith olbermann was not removed as a news anchor,

    it paid columnist to write pro bush columns,

    it planted questions and a fake news reporter at it’s own news conferences,

    and it threatened to prosecute reporters from the new york times for revealing so called “secrets” that were available on a govt contractors website.

    Obama has never done any of this.

    Like

  26. dorian said

    P – that’s because obama is a liberal and liberals are more tolerant and not as easily threatened. i wouldn’t be as tolerant of all the slandering. there’s freedom of speech and there’s abuse of that freedom. everything you mentioned above actually happened. so now because the democratic white house flinched a little, they are yelling censorship?? talk about a double standard. sour grapes aren’t fun to eat, eh?

    Like

  27. kay~ms said

    Princess says: “how is making increased penalties for murdering a man because he is gay or dragging a man to his death because he is black going to interfere with free speech?

    makes no sense.”

    I’ll tell you what doesn’t make sense. Giving increased penalties for murdering a man because he is gay or another man because he is black. But if a person is murdered (in the same ways) but for no other reason than they just felt like it… their penalty shouldn’t be as severe?

    All people who commit violence against others should be penalized equally severely. The bill was not necessary. It just gives a foothold to the liberal agenda to silence opinions that they don’t agree with.

    Like

  28. kay~ms said

    Princes says: “25.princessxxx said
    October 29, 2009 at Thursday, October 29, 2009
    and kay, how about when the bush administration did this:

    cut off msnbc,

    threatened nbc,

    had it’s political party threaten to back out of a tom brokaw moderated debate if keith olbermann was not removed as a news anchor,

    it paid columnist to write pro bush columns,

    it planted questions and a fake news reporter at it’s own news conferences,

    and it threatened to prosecute reporters from the new york times for revealing so called “secrets” that were available on a govt contractors website.

    Obama has never done any of this.”

    Well, if it’s true… your point is? I never said Bush was a saint and if Fox news didn’t report these things then they weren’t being very fair and balanced. But they very well may have mentioned it. Regardless, that doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t now point out what Obama is doing in the present. And when you combine that with all of his other socialistic policies, activities and people he’s brought into the White House, thank goodness someone is pointing this stuff out.

    Like

  29. obama the antichrist said

    my opinion of glenn beck is he wants to stop obama. i dont see him campaigning for senate. he likes the power he has on fox. he isnt leaving he likes being influential

    Like

  30. princessxxx said

    now kay, explain how hate crimes legislation is going to, as you say, ” give a foothold to the liberal agenda to silence opinions that they don’t agree with.”

    huh?

    Like

  31. kay~ms said

    Punishing someone for their thoughts (hate crimes) is the government trying to tell someone how to think. The government has no business regulating our thoughts. They have every right to regulate our ACTIONS. This is yet another flawed liberal ideology. It’s the socialist and communists etc countries that try to (do) control what someone thinks and will put you in jail for what you say as well as for what you do. And that is where this country is headed.

    “hate speech” will be considered a crime, if not already, because of this bill. Some people, I believe, do express thoughts that, I personaly wish they would be put in jail for but the governement has no right to decide what is hate speech and what isn’t, and then punish people accordingly.

    Like

  32. dorian said

    the government can’t regulate thoughts – anyone can hate to their heart’s delight – but when their hate is manifested through speech that incite and encourage hate crimes then it becomes ACTION and that kind of irresponsible action warrants responsible governance. the increase in hate crimes didn’t come out of nothing. it’s the effect of hate speeches at palin campaign rallies, as an example. it’s the “some people”, the hate-filled psychopaths you are referring to that need some kind of deterrent. in their warped minds, their violence (verbal or physical) is somehow justified and it doesn’t take much for them to snap. and where would one go to hear some hate-inspiring??there’s rush linbaugh, glenn beck, michelle malkin, et. al and where would you go to hear what they have to say? surprise, surprise. fox news.

    Like

  33. kay ms said

    Dorian, I have to ask… what “hate” speech are you referring to on Fox news? See, that is my point, you as a liberal view certain things as hate speech based on YOUR beliefs and views.

    I agree that those who act on their thoughts of hate need to know that they will pay for their actions, dearly. But this bill is the wrong way to do it because of what it says. Like I said earlier… if a white man was being dragged (by a white man) instead of a black man, is that crime less deserving of harsher punishment? Ask his relatives that question. The suffering was the same, the crime was the same. The reasons for the crime may be different but again, reason is thought and it can’t be regulated by government.

    And also, you cannot blame what someone says for the actions of another. That is that common liberal doctrine of not holding the person accountable for THEIR actions. This is another example of the liberals trying to fix the problem the wrong way. Someone can go out and hurt someone and the liberal media will blame the person HE CHOSE to listen to. Yes, the person he chose to listen to needs to shut up but you or I or the government has no right to shut them up by illegal means which include violating his 1st amendment rights.

    So, again, can you please tell me what hate speech you are referring to on Fox news? Or Palin’s “hate” speech? What exactly is “hate” speech to you Dorian?

    Like

  34. dorian said

    and you, as a right winger view certain things based on YOUR beliefs and views.
    why would you think punishment would be harsher for anyone based on racial difference? i have trust in our judicial system and so should everyone!

    no “common liberal doctrine” here, rather, i’m talking about “common responsiblity.” angry psycho/sociopaths will gravitate towards what will feed their anger and psychosis. if some preacher says it’s okay to want obama to die because God says it’s okay, what kind of message do you think that is giving?

    don’t pretend you don’t know what hate speech is. you’re smarter than that and i don’t want to engage in tail-chasing.

    Like

  35. kay ms said

    Dorian, I asked because you have accused anyone who verbally disagrees with another’s religion as hate speech. I don’t think you understand another’s right to their views. And people who think as you do (especially) should not be regulating other’s beliefs and views.

    You said: “and you, as a right winger view certain things based on YOUR beliefs and views.”

    Yes, but you are missing THE point… I’m not trying to force my views by silencing others who don’t agree with me. The government does not have the right to FORCE any views by law. A crime of violence should be punished equally the same regardless of the reason for it. I think the law has already covered the hate issue anyway… isn’t that what “agrivated” means? And it results in harsher punishment. There was no need for this bill. Again, it’s just a way for liberals to silence those that have opposing views.

    And if you want to trust in our judicial system that is also your right… I have witnessed way too much corruption in our judicial system to put any trust in it.

    And you said here…”no “common liberal doctrine” here, rather, i’m talking about “common responsiblity.” angry psycho/sociopaths will gravitate towards what will feed their anger and psychosis. if some preacher says it’s okay to want obama to die because God says it’s okay, what kind of message do you think that is giving?”

    Again, you’re missing the point. I’m not saying it’s right when someone talks about wanting someone else to die… I don’t agree with anything most extremists say. The POINT is that the government has no right to regulate what people say and think.. period. And that is what this bill is trying to do.

    Like

  36. princessxxx said

    here let me give you an example of what kay is talking about.

    bill keller on his show was talking about “soulforce”, a gay christian group. he continually referred to “soulforce” as a “cancer’ and like a cancer he said, it should be removed with a “knife”. he said this at least a half a dozen times with a big queer smile on his face.
    anyone with half a brian would know exactly what he is implying.

    another example, keller said that transgender “susan stanton” was no different than john couey, the man that killed 7yr old jessica lunsford by burying her alive after raping her repeatedly for days. he also mentions that couey got the “death penalty”.
    well of course anyone would know that a transender and a child rapist/murderer are not the same. well anyone except for some crazy christian that would equate transgenders with child killers becasue bill keller said so, and then think they should deserve death.

    or the pregnant man. keller spent 58 minutes describing the pregant man as the most disgusting vile human being on the planet, and then at the last 2 seconds adds, “well, really this is someone we should feel sorry for.”

    or how’s about when keller said that god should strike the st pete gay pride parade with lightning bolts. he thought that was really funny, it made him laugh. well, lightning did not strike the gay pride parade that weekend but it did strike bill kellers liveprayer servers and blew them out costing him money.
    so he that laughs last……

    oh, how’s about glenn beck saying that nancy pelosi should be poisoned to death. sat right on his stage with a fake nancy pelosi and said drink your wine, i poisoned it….beck though that was funny, too.

    kay, isn’t there something in the bible that says what if you murder someone in your heart, it’s the same as murdering them. some such sh!t?

    you see dorian, kay is against crimes of violence, yet she is all for the type of rhetoric that promotes it. because in her heart she is a hater.
    oh i could go on and on about this one.

    enjoy the clip.

    Like

  37. kay ms said

    Princess says: “you see dorian, kay is against crimes of violence, yet she is all for the type of rhetoric that promotes it. because in her heart she is a hater.”

    No, a hater is someone who likes to make stuff up about someone just so they can hate them as you have just demonstrated…
    Did you read any of my comments? I said I don’t agree with extremist statements. I’m sure you twisted some of what Bill said / did. If he is promoting any kind of violence I certainly wouldn’t support him / it. You, like Dorian are missing the point… which is the government’s role in controlling free speech. The all too common liberal tactic of repeating horrible actions of the “other” side only shows what is true in every group… extremists and radicals. When are you guys going to get that? Those aren’t legitimate arguments and expecially not a legitimate argument for an individual’s right to free speech, thoughts and beliefs.

    Princes said: ” kay, isn’t there something in the bible that says what if you murder someone in your heart, it’s the same as murdering them. some such sh!t?

    Yes, and I agree with that. But again, the government has no right punishing someone for what is in their heart. God is in charge of that.

    Like

  38. princessxxx said

    well, let us get our facts straight.

    first of all you said, “I’m sure you twisted some of what Bill said / did. If he is promoting any kind of violence I certainly wouldn’t support him / it.”

    let’s refer back to this. http://liveprayer.com/ddarchive3.cfm?id=1741
    “I am also very well aware that Pat Robertson has predicted President Bush will win in a landslide. The fact is, on November 9th, either Pat Robertson or Bill Keller will be wrong. I have clearly stated in the past that the penalty for a false prophet is to be stoned to death. I support that standard and am willing, I wonder if Pat is. Like most who say they hear from God and have been wrong, Pat has always found an excuse why he was wrong and just keeps on going. The fact is, God is NEVER WRONG. One of us is a false prophet! I will make NO EXCUSES.” – bill keller.

    so kay, keller does promote violence, “stoning to death”, and yet you still support him.

    so here we have yet another example of you lying.

    another of your lies, that the government is trying to control free speech. you have no evidence to back that up.

    don’t feel bad, i am happy to help further your education.
    here, put on a smiley face 🙂

    Like

  39. princessxxx said

    and kay, there already was a federal “hates crime’ bill for race, color, RELIGION or national origin.

    you are just unhappy that homosexuals and transgendered persons are now included. that is what this is all about isn’t it?

    Like

  40. kay ms said

    No, I am unhappy with what is happening to our country right now, what the current administration is doing to our country. why don’t you stop resorting to making personal accusations against me and just address the points? My point if a valid one but you won’t admit it. you are making me very tired.

    And again, if Bill promotes violence then I do not support him. What you quoted is words… Bill likes to use his freedom of speech to get his points across, I don’t think he would ever resort to violence. I have always admitted from the very beginning that Bill Keller is far from perfect. I still like most of what he says though… he doesn’t take any crap from the real liars that promote false “religions”. And I LOVE that.

    Like

  41. Princessxxx said

    i have been addressing your points.

    what i quoted is words. words of violence that keller promotes.

    and glenn beck pretend poisoning of nancy pelosi?
    those were just words, right? funny little words.

    your fear of the government taking away your right to free speech are imagined.
    ……i wonder where in the world you got that idea?
    hmmmmmmmm!

    Net Neutrality is Simply a Fancy Name for the Government Controlling the Content of the Internet

    Like

  42. princessxxx said

    kay, here is the link to keller’s show “who is soulforce”.
    http://liveprayer.com/varchive3.cfm?id=280

    i was watching it to find the clips where he “does” say, gay christians are a cancer in the body of christ and needs to be removed surgically, and radiated and chemo’ed.

    i’m not going to waste my time editing it for you so i can post the clips, so you will just have to watch it yourself while he rants and raves about homos. his favorite pastime, he is obsessed with gays. the man has definite sexual problems.

    did you know for instance that the sin of homosexuality is the worse sin because they have parades?
    that’s what she said.

    Like

  43. dorian said

    and what great parades the gays give! when i was living in greenwich village in new york, i could watch the halloween parade from my window. the best. then there are the ones in san francisco. c’mon now, billy, parades are all-american!

    Like

  44. kay ms said

    Yes, I will watch that P. I dont’ think Bill has said that homosexuality is the “worst” sin. I’ve heard him say that the reason he focuses on it so much is because it’s the one sin that people are proud of. And even have parades to celebrate this “sin”. People don’t have parades to celebrate infidelity or murder etc.

    I’ve heard Bill describe this as equivelant to someone looking up and giving God the finger. And I think that is what many of these people (parade participants) are doing.

    I’ve said from the beginning that this subject is the one that I did not completely agree with Bill on. Especially when I heard him say that it is a choice and that people are not born this way. I don’t believe that. I am struggling with this subject. Especially since I became aware of the story of David and Jonathan in the old testament. But I am one of those who at the very least, believes that promiscuousness, gay or straight is sin. And those parades certainly do seem to promote that.

    Like

  45. princessxxx said

    The United States is a Modern Day Sodom
    http://liveprayer.com/ddarchive3.cfm?id=3516

    “Let me say right up front, sin is sin in God’s eyes. No sin is greater than another. The sin of homosexuality is no more, or no less a sin than murder, adultery, stealing, lying, gossiping, or gluttony. THE REASON THIS SIN IS BEING SINGLED OUT AND ADDRESSED IS BECAUSE THOSE WHO COMMIT IT ARE PROUD OF THEIR SIN AND PROMOTE IT AS AN ACCEPTABLE LIFESTYLE! People who commit adultery do NOT have parades to celebrate their sin. People who commit murder do NOT have political action committees to make murder legal. People who steal do not have high school clubs and try to teach children that stealing is acceptable behavior. Homosexuality is a SIN in the eyes of God and is something to be ashamed of, NOT proud of.” – bill keller

    and, “God calls it an ABOMINATION!” – bill keller.

    well kay, eating lobsters is an ABOMINATION according to the very same chapter of the bible, yet i don’t see keller complaining about the Maine Lobster Festival, now does she?

    sounds to me like keller wants to end free speech of gays.

    i watched another of his shows last nite and he said he was going to get 50,000 people to attend the 2008 gay pride parade to pray. hah, how did that work out for her. she wouldn’t go because she knew the gay community would fix her hair.

    Like

  46. princessxxx said

    and this is another example of how keller cares so much for everyone’s free speech.
    from wikipedia –

    TOTSE -TOTSE (pronounced /ˈtɒtsi/ (was a San Francisco Bay Area website and former BBS dedicated to storing text files on a variety of subjects and viewpoints, many of which were unusual or controversial. The name is an acronym for Temple of the Screaming Electron.

    well, A number of TOTSE members placed prank telephone calls to Live Prayer with Bill Keller starting on November 21, 2006. When another TOTSE member reported them to Keller via email, Keller threatened legal action against TOTSE, specifically stating that the prank calls amounted to “conspiracy to obstruct commerce”.

    well, apparently keller doesn’t want the members of TOTSE to have free speech.

    hmmmm….wait a second before you begin. read this.

    KELLERS DAILY DEVOTIONAL THURSDAY JUNE 19, 2008 (Galatians 1:9)
    ***HELP ME BY MAKING A PHONE CALL AND SENDING AN EMAIL TO SENATOR OBAMAS OFFICE! I have left 12 voicemails and sent 25 emails to Josh DuBois, Director of Religious Affairs for Senator Obama’s campaign, requesting to interview the Senator about his beliefs. DuBois has not even had the common courtesy to respond, even to say no. He might take the request a bit more seriously if he gets 100,000 phone calls and emails in the next few days, so I am asking you to take a moment today and call Mr. DuBois and send him an email. Simply state that there are legitimate questions whether Senator Obama is really a Christian based on his words and deeds, and encourage the Senator to sit down for an on-camera interview with me to answer those critical questions so people will know whether he truly is a Christian as he claims. Thank you for helping me in this effort. To contact Josh DuBois, call 1-312-819-2008 and ask for his office. His email address is: jdubois@barackobama.com

    how hypocritical. keller is asking his stupid idiotic followers to spam the director of religious affairs for obamas campaign. that sounds like a “conspiracy to disrupt a political campaign.”

    YES, BILL KELLER ONLY CARES ABOUT HIS FREE SPEECH, NO ONE ELSES.

    and don’t try to tell me that these two things are any different.

    Like

  47. dorian said

    “she wouldn’t go because she knew the gay community would fix her hair.”

    i think you even have kay snickering at that one, P.

    kay – i doubt the paraders are even thinking of God. at the halloween parades, they’re too busy having a good time showing off their costumes and looking at other people’s costumes. at the gay day parades, same thing. everybody has fun at the gay parades. i agree with you on the promiscuity thing, it’s actually true for all excesses. that would probably fall between the greed and gluttony sin category if we wanna go by the book. but the sin part only applies to the religious. for everybody else, it’s called too much partying!

    Like

  48. princessxxx said

    kay said – “I’ve heard Bill describe this as equivelant to someone looking up and giving God the finger. And I think that is what many of these people (parade participants) are doing.”

    yes, well anyone has the right to look up and give god the finger, what does that have to do with you? nothing. get over it.

    Like

  49. dorian said

    re. TOTSE – it does seem that billy has had his clashes w/ the gay community, huh?

    re. John Dubois spamming – that’s when he was heavy on the obama-is-a-muslim campaign. this is a clear case of church breaking down the wall to get on state affairs. clergy has no business being involved in politics.

    Like

  50. Princessxxx said

    you’re absolutely correct dorian, clergy has NO business being involved in politics.
    that is why keller is “still” under investigation by the IRS, for doing exactly that.

    and the hypocrisy factor. don’t harrass me but let me harrass you.

    Like

  51. kay ms said

    Well, it’s pretty obvious that the IRS can’t do anything or else they would have already done it. Bill hasn’t done anything wrong. He is within his rights to speak out about the spiritual matters of this country. And how a “Commander in Chief” will affect it. The IRS (under Obama’s direction no doubt) is probably trying firgure out how to get away with taking away his tax exemption status anyway. That’s probably why it’s still under “investigation”.

    P said: “yes, well anyone has the right to look up and give god the finger, what does that have to do with you? nothing. get over it.”

    What is someone was giving the finger to someone you loved? And to make it even worse… you know that that person not only cares about the person giving the finger but LOVES them.

    P said: “YES, BILL KELLER ONLY CARES ABOUT HIS FREE SPEECH, NO ONE ELSES.
    and don’t try to tell me that these two things are any different.”

    They are different and here’s why… Totse was making prank calls…they weren’t legitimately calling to find out answers or to debate etc. Bill’s motives were different. He is trying to get answers from Obama about his conflicting actions and statements. He is the president and as a citizen, Bill and others, have the right to ask these questions until they get answers.

    Dorian said: “kay – i doubt the paraders are even thinking of God. at the halloween parades, they’re too busy having a good time showing off their costumes and looking at other people’s costumes. at the gay day parades, same thing. everybody has fun at the gay parades.”

    But that is the problem, they aren’t thinking about God at all. Not even giving Him a second thought. And if they are, it’s to say “I don’t care”. Even though God cares about them.

    This is the very thing that motivates Bill the most I believe. The way people don’t think about God at all. The way they put themselves first and ignore what God HAS done for them and that He truly loves them.

    And thanks for posting that link to Bill’s show P. I really miss when his show was on tv every night and people could call in. Time after time the callers would display the ignorance that Bill was talking about.

    That particular show was good in that he made some really good points, as always. How societies in history were destroyed over and over when their morals “went out the window”. Sodom and Gomarah for example.

    And that comment reminded me of Glenn Beck saying on his last show how socialism, communism etc. has never, ever worked in history… while he was pointing out all of our present day revolutionaries (socialist etc in the white house) trying once again to attempt it. It’s pretty sorry when we can’t learn from the costly mistakes of the past. It’s ignorant and stupid. And our white house is full of these people thanks to Obama.

    Like

  52. Princessxxx said

    i miss his show, too.
    how people would call in and punk him and she would get all mad and loose her cool.
    all keller’s lies.
    all his dreams going up in smoke.
    all his failures.
    hahahahahaha.

    TOTSE’S prank calls and keller’s spamming josh dubois are NO different.

    you are trying to say free speech has to have some type of meaning or point, it does not.
    you seem to think free speech has to have a pure motive., wrong.

    kay, if you had any power at all, you would be the first to silence people. so don’t give us this, “i care about free speech crap”

    and gay pride parades…FREE SPEECH.

    kay, how others feel about god is between them and god
    not them and you.

    Like

  53. Princessxxx said

    kay says in post #31
    “Punishing someone for their thoughts (hate crimes) is the government trying to tell someone how to think. The government has no business regulating our thoughts.

    then she says in post #51
    “But that is the problem, they aren’t thinking about God at all. Not even giving Him a second thought. And if they are, it’s to say “I don’t care”. Even though God cares about them.
    This is the very thing that motivates Bill the most I believe. The way people don’t think about God at all. The way they put themselves first and ignore what God HAS done for them and that He truly loves them.

    see how hypocritical your arguments are, kay?
    you don’t want the government controlling your thoughts, but it’s ok if bill keller tries to control what people are thinking.

    BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME

    Like

  54. kay ms said

    Are you kidding? You’re kidding right? these two are not the same thing. Bill has no authority to put someone in jail.. the government does.

    Like

  55. princessxxx said

    no you’re kidding. the govt doesn’t put people in jail for thoughts.

    keller, on the other hand, doesn’t want to put them in jail,
    he wants to stone them to death. i.e. pat robertson, john edward, sylvia browne.

    Like

  56. kay ms said

    The “hate” crimes bill will exact additional (harsher) punishments on those for their THOUGHTS. All who purposefully cause harm to others should be punished the same…. all should be punished harshly.

    Like

  57. princessxxx said

    kay, you are wrong, you are wrong about everything. 🙂

    Like

  58. Well, at least Kay asked for links to information about the evolution of humans from non-humans. If we didn’t evolve from apes, I would like to see Kay account for:

    human chromosome 2 showing evidence of being two ape chromosomes fused together

    the broken gene to synthesize vitamin C being the same in humans as in chimps but a bit more different in gorillas

    endogenous retroviruses at the same place in chimp DNA as in human DNA

    the fossil record showing transitional species going from more ape-like to more human-like over the past six million years

    Noted scientists such as Kenneth Miller and Francis Collins who are Christians who accept that humans evolved from apes

    Like

  59. Oh, and the list of scientists named Steve and the list of 11,000 Clergy Members who accept the fact that humans evolved from apes. Oh yeah, and the nested hierarchies of different types of data that MATCH.

    Like

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