A Different Kind of Blog

news and things sacred and irreverent put together by opinionated people.

Christianity at its Finest

Posted by obama the antichrist on November 2, 2009

In the opening of his book, The Kingdom of God is a Party, Tony Compolo tells of a trip to Hawaii. When you travel from the east coast to Honolulu, your biological clock runs wild for a day or so, and the first night there, Compolo was both hungry and awake at 3:00 a.m. He went off to find an open restaurant., but the only thing open was a greasy spoon diner run by a guy named Harry. So he sat down and ordered a donut.

As he was beginning to eat, a group of prostitutes entered the diner and sat at the counter, trapping Compolo among them. One of the prostitutes mentioned to her friend that the next day was her birthday. Her friend said cynically, “Why are you telling me? Do you want a party and cake; is that what you want?” The first prostitute, named Agnes, said, “Why do you have to be so nasty? I was just telling you. No, I don’t expect a cake and a party; I’ve never have had a birthday cake in my life!” There was something about this woman that touched Compolo. After they left, he asked Harry if these girls came in every night. When he found out that they did, Compolo and Harry decided to give Agnes a party. Harry did the cake, Compolo did the decorations and Harry’s wife got the word out.

The next morning at 3:15 there were crepe-paper decorations, a huge birthday cake and about thirty prostitutes and street people in the diner. When Agnes walked in, everybody yelled “Surprise” and they sang happy birthday. Agnes almost collapsed, and she began to cry uncontrollably. She was at her very first birthday party, and the party was for her! She didn’t even want to cut the cake; she took it back to her apartment so she could look at it for a couple of days.

After Agnes left to take her cake home, something just prompted Compolo to say, “What do you say; let’s have a prayer for Agnes.” It just seemed like the thing to do at the time. After the prayer, Harry said, “Hey, you didn’t tell us you were a preacher. Why kind of church do you belong to anyway?” In one of those flashes of inspiration where you to say exactly the right thing at the right time, Compolo answered, “I belong to a church that throws parties for prostitutes at 3:30 in the morning!” But it was Harry who told the punch line to this story; he said, “No you don’t. There are no churches like that. If there was, I’d join. I’d want to be a part of a church like that!” You know, who wouldn’t?

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88 Responses to “Christianity at its Finest”

  1. princessxxx said

    wait a minute, i threw a party for a prostitute, and i’m not a christian.

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  2. obama the antichrist said

    but would expect a christian to bill keller to throw a party for a prostitute

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  3. princessxxx said

    hardly.

    actually i think your story is very nice.
    a lot of identified christians would have run screaming out of the greasy spoon diner. and a lot of non christians would have probably gone running, too.

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  4. obama the antichrist said

    wow let me retype my comment…..its awful….ahahahaha

    *comment #2 retyped* but would you expect a christian like bill keller to throw a party for a prostitute

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  5. dorian said

    sounds like a good party to me, OTA! nice story.
    the man is just showing human kindness.
    tony campolo is a good example of a good christian.
    imo, religion and church has little bearing on someone learning to become a decent human being. kindness and consideration for others is passed on to us and taught by example by our parents and elders for the most part and the rest is all our individual dna. then there are some people who are just rotten to the core. i say medicate and/or institutionalize!

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  6. dorian said

    maybe if someone like keller stops thinking about religious dogma for a moment and goes on the individual human level, like the prostitute who was never given a birthday party and cake – if he was in campolo’s shoes that day, what do you think he would have done?
    i’m thinking, from all his sermons posted so far, that the party would have never happened. one less person made happy in the world.

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  7. 1minionsopinion said

    All it takes is one person who cares at the right time. That was a nice story. Thanks for posting it.

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  8. kay ms said

    Gosh.. where to start…

    Well, this is such a sweet “feel good” story. But unfortunately, there is most likely are very sad ending that is being overlooked. Since no one (in particular the preacher) told this woman about Jesus so she could truly be happy and live a better life and most importantly, be saved… she never made it to Heaven when she died.

    But hey.. as least she finally got her birthday cake! Good for them.. what a nice deed they did.

    You guys are so wrong about Bill… he WOULD have told this woman about Jesus. And yes, he would have told her that what she was doing was not what Jesus wanted her to be doing with her life. “ohhh how horrible of him to tell her that!” “How ‘selfrighteous’ of him!”

    This is just another prosperity preaching “feel good” story that feeds the egos of those who can’t handle the idea of judgement… not even from God. People so despise being “critisized”, their delicate egos are so fragile and they are so full of pride, that it’s now become “wrong” and judgemental to even say out loud the things that are wrong. It’s ridiculous.

    Thanks to the “rightous liberals” what society is left with now is the fast growing “feel good, live for ourselves, new age ‘religion'” that says nothing about what God wants and what we should do for Him. Only what we should do for ourselves to make us feel better. And so, when a “great” story like this comes along, and people are instead, being “selfless” and making someone else feel better… it’s actually called “Christianity at it’s finest” ?? What?? No one even told this woman about Jesus! Compolo let her go home with her precious cake, he patted himself on the back, and made sure to tell this heartwarming story over and over for more pats on the back (and book sales of course). And again, the woman? Well, hopefully she did come across someone like Bill before she passed on.

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  9. kay~ms said

    I have a comment in moderation.

    Like

  10. kay~ms said

    John 8
    1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

    But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

    9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

    11″No one, sir,” she said.
    “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

    Hopefully this will help explain the difference between judging and speaking out against sin. As Jesus shows, these are two different things.

    Bill isn’t judging when he states what sin is according to the Bible. Liberals always seem to be confused by this.

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  11. 1minionsopinion said

    You’d think the world’s second oldest profession would at least be unionized by now.

    And it’s not just married men or guys in relationships that seek out prostitutes. I’m sure those girls do a decent business with the single boys as well. What’s wrong with them spending money on a little nookie?

    Why does unmarried sex have to be seen as a sin? Why is prostitution illegal?

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  12. dorian said

    well that’s the thing, kay – only fundamentalists of any religion consider sex without marriage a sin. although we all know that not only liberal minded people and non-religious people fornicate, commit adultery and keep prostitutes in business. so the sin factor is a non-issue to the ones who don’t live by the bible. it’s still an act of kindness and i’m sure God won’t invalidate what the good preacher did because he didn’t make the prostitute accept Jesus as her saviour.
    some acts are done from the heart, without strings attached.
    i’m sure you have done that yourself.

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  13. obama the antichrist said

    Kay it said that she kept it for a couple of days. how would he have known unless he went and visited her agian. let me reiterate read the whole thing. The purpose of this story is to say to take every moment you get and be a good person. and didnt he pray in a room full of drunks and prostitutes? hmmmm sounds pretty good to me. I am pretty sure he followed up with her (hence the “she could look at it for a couple of days”). and you are also overlooking the fact that he PRAYED IN A BAR!!!!!! so multiple heard about jesus. and its not the preachers duty to force someone to accept jesus he is merely the messenger its up to those ppl to decide. mmk thanks.

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  14. kay~ms said

    If you all will note, I never used the word “force” that is your word(s). I said “tell”. You guys keep repeating all of the stereotypes and misconceptions despite my correcting you over and over. You all just don’t want to let go of them because it makes your view look better. Like I said, Bill would have told the woman about Jesus. He wouldn’t have “condemned” her. Telling someone where they are wrong (according to the Bible) is not condemning them. On the contrary, it is saving them.

    I did find the story “sweet” but it was not “Christianity at it’s finest”. It was a nice story about some people who cared about making someone else happy for a moment. The preacher should have taken the opportunity (his job) to do more. “Christianity at it’s finest” would have been someone helping this woman out of her misery by telling her about God after giving her the party and cake. There was nothing wrong with the party and cake part but it is wrong to not help a person to understand God’s love and the importance of showing their love in return by doing His will.

    If he did indeed follow up with her, I find it interesting that it wasn’t mentioned in the story. As I stated earlier, I see this story (and Compalo) as appealing to the liberal “believers” who follow the “new age” version of Christianity… no “judging” allowed, acceptance of everything. (“and that’s what Jesus was all about”.. that is a lie created to appease the sinner). And I guess now, throwing partys for sinners and then sending them on their merry way. Of course, who wouldn’t want to join that church! No doubt prostitute parades are sure to follow.

    You guys just don’t get it… you judge people because you claim they are judging. How hypocritical. And the irony is that the people you are accusing of judging aren’t even judging.. they are stating God’s will according to the Bible… which, clearly, the new age liberal church considers “sin”. How convienient.

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  15. dorian said

    oh my. another negative spin on a nice story. it always ends where you call everybody hypocrites or something else.
    so kay, regarding this “Telling someone where they are wrong (according to the Bible) is not condemning them. On the contrary, it is saving them.”, does it mean you’re wanting to save us when you tell us we’re wrong?? if that’s your intention all along then i’ll have to say “thank you”.

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  16. obama the antichrist said

    kay this is a whole book which i havent read i just came across this section. and you keep ignoring the fact that he just mentioned jesus to a room full of sinners. thats a huge thing. and Kay it is christianity at its finest how many christian ppl would be at barish setting and mention jesus to prostitutes. not many. and that was my title to this little piece not the authors. and i hold fast to that belief because a) he mentioned jesus where jesus is taboo and b) he significantly changed this womans life by showing an act of kindness. now if you want to go on ridiculing this story go ahead have at it. but i and alot of others that will agree with me feel that this how christians should act

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  17. kay~ms said

    Dorian, the nice story was not all of it… you both had to critisize (judge) Bill Keller. I then had to point out how you both were wrong.

    “does it mean you’re wanting to save us when you tell us we’re wrong?? ”

    Well, yes, when we’re talking about salvation (believing in what Jesus has done for you). The other times, I’m just trying to point out the hypocrisy (Reverse Ignorance).

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  18. obama the antichrist said

    kay are you a christian you seem hell bent on destroying an act of God

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  19. dorian9 said

    kay is projecting again, calling everybody hypocrites.

    psychology101.com
    Ego Defense Mechanisms

    Projection: Attributing one’s thoughts or impulses to another person. In common use, this is limited to unacceptable or undesirable impulses. Examples: (1) a man, unable to accept that he has competitive or hostile feelings about an acquaintance, says, “He doesn’t like me.” (2) a woman, denying to herself that she has sexual feelings about a co-worker, accuses him, without basis, of flirt and described him as a “wolf.”

    Projective Identification:
    As in projection, the individual deals with emotional conflict or internal or external stressors by falsely attributing to another his or her own unacceptable feelings, impulses, or thoughts. Unlike simple projection, the individual does not fully disavow what is projected. Instead, the individual remains aware of his or her own affects or impulses but mis-attributes them as justifiable reactions to the other person. Not infrequently, the individual induces the very feelings in others that were first mistakenly believed to be there, making it difficult to clarify who did what to whom first.

    This defense mechanism is commonly utilized by the paranoid personality.

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  20. Hors Service said

    @Kay

    Therefore, he should help this girl, but in return, she must convert?
    Or he should have tried to, showed the Error Of Her Ways, and stuff?
    Don’t you think a prostitute doesn’t have had enough of that?

    What happened to doing right and nice things to other people, without asking anything in return?

    I think you pointed out the problem of the evangelist missionaries as I see it: they’re trying to convert people by helping them, not just helping them and teach the God by showing the example. It’s a bit like Scientologists or Witnesses.

    And each behavior is “New Age” Christianism. Evangelism as seen today didn’t existed 100 years ago.

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  21. princessxxx said

    10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

    11″No one, sir,” she said.
    “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

    WELL, ISN’T THAT THE FEELGOOD CHRISTIANITY AT IT’S BEST?

    Tell us kay. why didn’t jesus follow up on that story?
    why didn’t jesus check back in with the whore and let us know she was saved?
    FOR ALL WE KNOW SHE IS BURNING IN HELL AS WE SPEAK.

    “Jesus let her go home with her precious cake, he patted himself on the back, and made sure to tell this heartwarming story over and over for more pats on the back (and book sales of course).”

    IT’S ALL SO LIBERAL.

    kay, really? you make no sense.

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  22. kay~ms said

    Hors, you said: “Therefore, he should help this girl, but in return, she must convert?
    Or he should have tried to, showed the Error Of Her Ways, and stuff?
    Don’t you think a prostitute doesn’t have had enough of that?”

    First, you are misunderstanding the point… Bill Keller isn’t asking for something in return by telling her about Christ. She is the one who will receive the best gift of all. Why do you see it that way? christianity isn’t Mormonism where he will get some extra virgins or his own planet when he dies if he “saves” enough souls.

    Second, you are saying that Christians shouldn’t tell someone about Christ and also what God expects from us and why because they have already had “enough” of that? How do you know? You are not seeing this from a Christian’s point of view.

    I’m not saying that Bill or anyone else should give this woman a lecture on morals. The idea is to help them get away from that life and to live for God. But you guys feel better when the Christian, who sincerely wants to help, is made out to be a person who is just interested in “holier than thou” lecturing and “judging”.

    Once again you all are taking an example of the minority (the faults of humans) and applying that to Christians as a whole (and what Christianity means). Don’t you guys ever get tired of me pointing this out to you? This is a biased and unfair aproach.

    P, you always say I make no sense but everytime I explain to you how I most certainly do make sense, and that you are just not understanding, you never comment any further. So whatever you say…

    Why didn’t Jesus follow up on that story? There was no follow up needed as far as the story goes…THE point was made… Jesus does not condemn us if we believe in Him. How is the woman in the party scenario going to get that from a birthday cake? That story was severely lacking as far as Jesus goes. Once again, your counter example is not the same thing.

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  23. Princessxxx said

    uh, kay, nowhere in that story did it say that the woman believed in jesus, now did it? NO.

    and jesus hadn’t died for her sins yet. what’s your point?

    also, had it been bill keller in that greasy spoon at 3:00 am, the hookers probably would have taken one look at him with his bleach blond hair and thought he was working their corner. they probably would have cut him. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

    a real christian told me this just now, ” you don’t win people over by being judgemental.”

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  24. 1minionsopinion said

    “I’m not saying that Bill or anyone else should give this woman a lecture on morals. The idea is to help them get away from that life and to live for God. But you guys feel better when the Christian, who sincerely wants to help, is made out to be a person who is just interested in “holier than thou” lecturing and “judging”. ”

    But there’s an assumption they want to be saved. If they haven’t gone into accounting by this point in their lives, what difference will it make if they have sex all night instead? Aside from potential STDs, who are they hurting?

    Okay, so guy with a partner shouldn’t be looking at hookers for a night on the town, but is that the hooker’s fault, or the guy who can’t be satisfied with his home life?

    I still think it was a nice story — if all he did was give the gal a party and not make her think there’s anything wrong with the way she chooses to live her life.

    If the whole intention was to push her into questioning her selfworth and her chosen profession, what right does he have to condemn her choices? He without sin, Christ said, can cast the first stone. Nobody was without sin. Is Bill? Probably not, no matter how much he may think so or wish it.

    If she later becomes a Christian (how do you know she isn’t?) it can be her choice, not because someone brought her a cake one night.

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  25. princessxxx said

    bill keller is worse than any hooker.

    he pimps jesus for money.

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  26. Hors Service said

    @Kay

    I am sorry dear Kay, but Bill Keller considers homosexuality as a sin, and needs to tell other people that it’s not his views but God’s.

    Two blocking points to me, that prevents me from considering him as a “more good than bad” preacher.

    By the way, I (me) didn’t mentionned Bill Keller in my answer. I talked about “evangelist missionairies”, and more widely of the attitude of trying to convert people by helping them.
    To me, it’s a bit like trying to sell them something, based on the gratitude feeling.
    I don’t think it is really Christian
    (to answer your “You are not seeing this from a Christian’s point of view.” I just have a different Christian point of view from you)

    Then, to my point-by-point answer:

    “Bill Keller isn’t asking for something in return by telling her about Christ.”

    1) He is asking for money, each time, at the end of his homelia. Very common method.

    2) Did you read BK devotionals? Each time, he is telling people to convert, to abandon their sinfull lives, to deny Obama legitimacy, etc… When it isn’t self-pitiness, or moaning. Want me to get back and find examples? I’m a bit lazy, you see, but if you ask…

    “She is the one who will receive the best gift of all.”

    As you said to me, “How do you know”? But me, I’m not telling her anything about her way of life.

    On the general point of view, I do agree that living a more moral way, etc… Will do good for her, but that’s not the point.

    “christianity isn’t Mormonism where he will get some extra virgins or his own planet when he dies if he “saves” enough souls.”

    But you get to Heaven and live with God among angels. What’s the difference?

    “Second, you are saying that Christians shouldn’t tell someone about Christ”

    No, I’m not. I never did. Christians SHOULD tell about Christ, once asked to. Like:
    – Oh My! How and Why do you live so happily? Where comes all that hope from?
    – See girl, I have faith in the Christ.
    (It’s caricatural but you get the idea)
    I believe in the teaching power of example. And I have scientific basis to prove that example has a great power.

    I also believe that preached-against-their-will people tend to do the opposite out of spite.

    “The idea is to help them get away from that life and to live for God.”

    Perfectly appreciable. I agree. But how do you say *Repent your sinful ways ye sinners!* in a nice way? I believe that all come step by step, and that we shouldn’t judge those who live a different way, unless they hurt other people. Why not beggining by saying “You know, I think that maybe your job is the reason why you’re unhappy”, and so…
    Some prostitutes are HAPPY to do this job. They exists. I personnaly don’t reprouve prostitution as a principle. But a lot of prostitutes are unhappy. Nevertheless, it’s not a reason to get judgmental on them.

    “But you guys feel better when the Christian, who sincerely wants to help, is made out to be a person who is just interested in “holier than thou” lecturing and “judging”.”

    Even if they don’t feel it that way, it’s how they sound. And Christians exists that are not like that. Do you think preachy christians are the majority? They are not. To me, REAL christians teach God by the example. By living God’s word and spirit. By helping others, even non christians or poors or socially unacceptable people, without anything more, anything less.
    These christians are those who believe that a warm smile ,a bit of consideration and a birthday cake is better for humanity than preaching people than can’t receive the message.

    “Once again you all are taking an example of the minority (the faults of humans) and applying that to Christians as a whole (and what Christianity means). Don’t you guys ever get tired of me pointing this out to you? This is a biased and unfair aproach.”

    No, I pointed an attitude of a minority that I dislike (both the attitude and the minority). And if you read me well, I didn’t blamed Christianity.

    Did Jesus asked for the woman’s belief?

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  27. Hors Service said

    Again, I am getting too long…
    And I still have the other subject to answer…
    *sigh*

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  28. 1minionsopinion said

    I agree with Hors. I don’t think the trouble is wanting to give her the gift of Christ (if she doesn’t already have a faith and a church she attends semi-regularily). It’s the if/then of it. If you do, then you get heaven. If you don’t, then you’re damned to hell. It’s all so black and white.

    Best way to illustrate god can lead to a decent life is by leading the decent life and demonstrating how belief in god helps. Atheists do the decent life and demonstrate (hopefully) how no belief can achieve the same decent results.

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  29. Hors Service said

    I agree with 1minions, and to his last post also.

    I would add that as the christians aren’t perfect, atheists aren’t perfect either.

    I -personnaly- believe that the atheists have kind of gone further in the morality domain: doing good things without waiting for God’s approval, just because they’re the right things to do. Essentially right.

    I don’t think a link between a belief in God and morality is necessary, although the belief in God suppose that you should behave morally.

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  30. 1minionsopinion said

    If only belief in god did lead to moral lifestyles.. but all to often the belief seems to allow for hatred and bigotry to flourish where human kindness could have grown instead.

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  31. dorian said

    ditto, minion…

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  32. obama the antichrist said

    belief in God does not allow for bigorty to flourish at all. christians arent typically bigots. I can see hatred toward sinners but rarely hatred towards race

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  33. 1minionsopinion said

    Bigotry isn’t limited to race, I don’t think. Any prejudice of any kind can fall under that heading. Intolerance, whatever. Anything that shows evidence of narrow mindedness and stereotyping or whatever.

    Christians maybe aren’t “typically” if they’re proper Christ followers, but again, people can use faith and god and Good, Right, Just, to approve just about anything, and think they’re good, right and just, even when the act itself honestly isn’t.

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  34. obama the antichrist said

    i guess i really am in a bubble. my christian friends think the same as me. tolerate of all religions and willing to learn about another culture and willing to teach our beliefs.

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  35. dorian said

    racism – talking about groups like kkk and muslim extremists and the like, who happen to be believers. bigotry: see http://www.godhatesfags.com/
    and http://www.lovegodsway.org/ all the hate doesn’t make sense at all. Jesus was all about tolerance and love.

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  36. dorian said

    well OTA, you’re just a nice guy who happens to be christian.

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  37. Yes OTA, you are a nice guy. Ideally one shouldn’t even hate sinners. Hate the sin, not the sinner! Personally I’m not sure there even is such a thing as sin in the big picture, but if there is, that’s the policy I follow.

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  38. I am sure that the evidence of the world overwhelmingly and clearly shows that humans evolved from apes, that in fact, humans ARE apes. Those Christians who try to tell me the evidence for evolution ain’t there lose credibility on spiritual matters when they are so clearly and obviously wrong about something that can easily be checked.

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  39. kay~ms said

    Hors said: “But how do you say *Repent your sinful ways ye sinners!* in a nice way? I believe that all come step by step, and that we shouldn’t judge those who live a different way, unless they hurt other people. Why not beggining by saying “You know, I think that maybe your job is the reason why you’re unhappy”, and so…”

    That’s pretty much what I said: “The idea is to help them get away from that life…”

    And once again, thanks for demonstrating my point…””But how do you say *Repent your sinful ways ye sinners!* in a nice way?”

    You mean in a way that doesn’t hurt someone’s ego and pride? What is wrong with saying “turn away from your sins”? Why is that so bad? It’s only going to be a problem for people who don’t like being critisized in any way… it’s too much for their egos and pride to handle. I would say that that is the first thing that is standing in the way of a person believing and therefore the first thing that needs to be addressed. I’ve certainly haven’t missed many opportunties in pointing out the pride and ego problems here… trying to help you all see how much of a problem it is but it’s clearly not working… at all. Another Christian who used to visit here told me to be more gentle when dealing with other’s egos but I don’t see how that will work. It just seems like you are just helping them to learn to live with it… and while that may work in the beginning, it will never work in the long run.

    So, thanks for bringing up / proving that point for me Hors.

    Me: “Once again you all are taking an example of the minority (the faults of humans) and applying that to Christians as a whole (and what Christianity means). Don’t you guys ever get tired of me pointing this out to you? This is a biased and unfair aproach.”

    Hors: No, I pointed an attitude of a minority that I dislike (both the attitude and the minority). And if you read me well, I didn’t blamed Christianity.”

    Me: You didn’t mention it that way… you continuously point out the faults of Christians but never say it’s “of a minority that I dislike”. Except now when I had to “remind” you that it is the minority.

    You are in an ongoing debate about the faults of Christianity but every time I call you on it, you back track and say you are not. If you are talking about the minority, you should make it clear that you are not talking about Christians in general… but then again, if it’s the minority… why bother to mention it at all???? It’s because you want to slam Christianity… you all need to do that because it makes you feel better.

    Bill has faults but he also does good… yeah, I’ve read his devotionals Hors, and if any of you were honest you would admit that what he writes is contructive and valuable… but again, you all just want to focus on the negative…he’s an easy target for you and it makes you feel good to put down a Christian who’s throwing the truth in your face… of course you don’t like him. But don’t worry, he’s not losing any sleep over the ego and pride issues of people like you…all he can do is tell it like it is and the rest is up to you to work out within yourself. If you all don’t get it because he’s not saying it “nice” enough.. again, that is your problem to work out.

    You quoted me: ““christianity isn’t Mormonism where he will get some extra virgins or his own planet when he dies if he “saves” enough souls.”

    And you said: “But you get to Heaven and live with God among angels. What’s the difference?”

    True, I’ll give you that. But your implication was that Bill had a selfish motive (or Christians have selfish motives or whatever)… I believe that Bill’s motive is to do God’s will. And I also believe that he truly does care about people when he asks them to be saved.

    You said: “Christians SHOULD tell about Christ, once asked to.” Are Christians “allowed” to ask if the other person wants to hear about Christ? Or are they just not allowed to bring it up at all? Just so I know.

    Again, no one said (it’s just what you all want to hear) to “force” Christianity on this woman.. no one said to “make” her accept Jesus.
    And it is not “condemning” to tell someone that what they are doing is not what God wants them to do according to the Bible.. again, that is just your delicate egos and pride being offended. It’s that ridiculous liberal new age doctrine.

    And “Jesus was all about tolerance and love”. Another false theology. Jesus, primarily was about loving and obeying the Father… read the Bible. And yes, He commanded us to love others. As for tolerance, yes of course that also, but not the twisted ‘liberal’ tolerance (that “everyone’s truth is the truth” stuff)… again, read the Bible. The Jewish elders were critisized by him many times. He had no tolerance for their hypocrisy and lack of love for others and for God.

    You said: “These christians are those who believe that a warm smile ,a bit of consideration and a birthday cake is better for humanity than preaching people than can’t receive the message.”

    Again, you are not understanding how a Christian thinks. Concern for humanity here on earth is important of course, but it’s what happens to our souls, for eternity, when we leave this earth that is ultimately the most important…after we leave this earth, our chance to be saved is gone.

    Yes, what Compalo did was nice and yes, nice gestures are good and people should do them all the time… there is a passage that talks about doing kind gestures for strangers and that some have even entertained Angels while doing so. But it is infinitely more important (from a Christian’s standpoint) to help a person know God and His love. You say that the person probably doesn’t want to hear it (again), well, there is a saying…” timing is everything”… and even though this woman has surely heard it before… this particular situation, especially because others had touched her heart, this is the time that she might “get” it. But if we don’t say anything… the opportunity may be lossed.

    You said: “Did Jesus asked for the woman’s belief?”

    Are you referring to Princess’ point?

    Princess said: “Tell us kay. why didn’t jesus follow up on that story?
    why didn’t jesus check back in with the whore and let us know she was saved?
    FOR ALL WE KNOW SHE IS BURNING IN HELL AS WE SPEAK.

    First, different times (before Jesus’ sacrifice and after). And most importantly, different people… Jesus and a mortal man.

    I’m sure Jesus knew about this woman’s soul… compalo wouldn’t know.

    And I think it would be safe to say that this woman believed that Jesus was from God (she knew He was a great man) and I’m sure she did as He said. Compalo didn’t tell the prostitute anything to help her change her way of life and live for God. At least he didn’t think it was important enough to mention in the story… like I said before.. the story was to cater to the people who cannot handle being judged for the wrong that they do. No doubt he did get new members for this “great” story. All of them liberals who don’t like to be judged and told what they can and can’t do. It’s prosperity preaching… tell people what they want to hear (you get more donations that way)… it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. I doubt the story ever even happened.

    Like

  40. kayms said

    I have a comment in moderation.

    Like

  41. 1minionsopinion said

    I don’t know if all beliefs should be tolerated. I can’t get behind the Muslim way of thinking about women and what’s appropriate behaviour. It’s too “out there” for a liberal feminist like me. Heh. It’s too harsh, too confining, too restrictive. Too scary. I can’t imagine what life those women have to lead in order not to get killed by a suddenly outraged husband or father. I can’t fathom it.

    Like

  42. dorian said

    “there is a passage that talks about doing kind gestures for strangers and that some have even entertained Angels while doing so. But it is infinitely more important (from a Christian’s standpoint) to help a person know God and His love.”

    kay, i don’t agree with your kind of christian standpoint. imo, kindness in itself is God and love and that is a most powerful way to glorify your God.
    God is divine and not encumbered by Human Ego. if your bible tells you that acts of kindness and love is not enough because the most important thing is to convert people to your beliefs, that’s coming from the human ego interpretation of the will of God again. the spanish conquistadors and their clergy were acting on that same interpretation in the slaughtering of the native inhabitants and eradicating their way of life and sacred temples in those lands that they conquered.

    i like to remind myself that you don’t represent christianity as a whole. your type of christianity is cultish. that’s it, you must be high priestess of the keller cult. just half-joking.

    Like

  43. dorian said

    wassamatter, minion? you don’t want to wear a burka? mysterious can be sexy. hehe
    but that’s one thing about the old religious beliefs – replete with misogynistic practices.

    Like

  44. princessxxx said

    kay IS the high priestess of keller’s cult.

    here is what keller is saying today.

    “A true modern day tool of satan helping to lead the souls of millions to hell!!! Other than Oprah, there is probably nobody in the world more responsible for selling the spiritual crack of our day, these damnable New Age teachings from the pits of hell, than Deepak Chopra. Chopra is an Indian medical doctor and operates the Chopra Center at the LaCosta Resort and Spa in California. It is billed as the place people can come to be healed in their body, mind, and soul, by utilizing Chopra’s New Age concepts. He tours the world, speaking to sold out venues, dispensing his New Age lies from hell.

    He has written over 40 books, books mostly on “spirituality.” His latest is titled, “Jesus.” It is Chopra’s version of Jesus, and I assure you this is NOT the true Biblical Jesus. The thing that makes me sick is that I have heard men who claim to be pastors endorsing this and other Chopra books, and people who call themselves Christians heartily endorsing Chopra’s books to their friends and family.” – bill keller

    and this
    “Deepak Chopra is evil incarnate, packaged in this persona that looks so kind and gentle and loving. Satan masquerades as an angel of light!”

    WELL, I’M SURE KELLER HASN’T EVEN READ THE BOOK, SO HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT CHOPRA SAYS. JUST KELLER, MAKING JUDGEMENTS AS USUAL.

    AND MINION, YOU WILL LOVE THIS ONE, IT MADE ME THINK OF YOUR POST
    http://1minionsopinion.wordpress.com/2009/11/02/chuck-chuck-bo-buck-bananafana-fo-fu/

    “At the same time this garbage is hitting the bookstores, in Washington, DC there is a new bus sign campaign by a humanist group that says, “Why believe in God? Just be good for goodness sake.” This is a play on the Christmas song, “Santa Claus is Coming to Town,” and reinforces the secular mindset that you don’t have to believe in God, just be “good.” Of course the Bible clearly sates that “there are none that are good, no not one,” since we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So once again, in a very public way, this lie from hell that all you have to do is to be good is being reinforced in the minds of the unbelieving masses.” – bill keller.

    BILL KELLER IS HUMAN TRASH AND I WISH SOMEONE WOULD MAKE GOOD ON THOSE DEATH THREATS HE CLAIMS TO GET.

    Like

  45. dorian said

    keller on chopra: “He tours the world, speaking to sold out venues, dispensing his New Age lies from hell.”
    methinks there’s a little jealousy on top of the judgment.

    and you’re right, P, maybe he hasn’t read any of his books. nothing new age about what he’s saying. the ancient egyptian schools have been teaching what chopra is talking about.
    i don’t know why fundies get so threatened and incensed everytime someone humanizes jesus. it just makes his teachings easier to relate to; people want to emulate his ways. i believe chopra’s message is that anyone can be christ-like. and that’s probably considered sacrilege.
    good spirituality is positive energy. prayers, meditation, chanting, all the same; invoking good, ‘God’ energy, if you will. there is no myth or magic involved.
    and fire and brimstone shall hail upon my heathen head, sayeth the angered christian crusaders…

    Like

  46. princessxxx said

    i know, what a hypocrite, that keller.

    he makes false prophecies and then condemns others for being false prophets.

    talk about a tool of satan. kay, too. she’s a tool of satan for promoting keller.

    Like

  47. dorian said

    good prophet/false prophet, they’re all the same. the best prophets are dead because correct prophecy is always determined in hindsight anyway. i’ll believe in prophecies when the time machine is invented. then they’ll be able to come back from the future with proof and tangible evidence, like videos and photographs and dna samples.

    Like

  48. kayms said

    Dorian, you said: “kay, i don’t agree with your kind of christian standpoint. imo, kindness in itself is God and love and that is a most powerful way to glorify your God.
    God is divine and not encumbered by Human Ego. if your bible tells you that acts of kindness and love is not enough because the most important thing is to convert people to your beliefs, that’s coming from the human ego interpretation of the will of God again.”

    Everything you say and have said concerning Christianity states your unbelief that Jesus is the Son of God and that He gave His life for your sins. You never come out and say that but EVERYTHING you say supports that. I really think you could be the poster child for the new age religion / way of thinking concerning God. You completely dismiss Jesus and what He did. You keep referrencing your Catholic upbringing, so I wonder what it was exactly that made you reject Jesus’ sacrifice.

    To say this: “if your bible tells you that acts of kindness and love is not enough because the most important thing is to convert people to your beliefs”…

    this is nothing but twisting what the Bible says (your distorted view). The Bible doesn’t say to convernt people to our beliefs “that is the most important thing”. It says to tell people what Christ has done for them. Big difference.

    You said: “the spanish conquistadors and their clergy were acting on that same interpretation in the slaughtering of the native inhabitants and eradicating their way of life and sacred temples in those lands that they conquered.”

    See, there you go again, bringing up people from the past who did NOT follow what Christianity taught. They were wrong. And just because they called themselves Christians, and I and others call ourselves Christians today, that doesn’t mean that we are the same (blood thirsty killers). You have a hard time understanding that just because people have the same beliefs that doesn’t mean we are all quilty of the same EXTREMISM. You insist on uniting the two ideologies and they are not the same. Look at Islam for example, you don’t condemn the Islamic faith because of the extremists right? So why are you condemning Christianity??? Your bias is showing Dorian. Don’t feel bad you have a lot of company here. And you ARE “condemning” the beliefs of Christianity.. the belief that there is only one way…thru Christ. Your insistance has always been that this belief will turn us into “blood thirsty killers”. So why aren’t the Muslims all “blood thirsty killers”??

    And those people of the past DO NOT define Christianity. They are humans (with faults) who did not follow the teachings of Christianity. When are you going to stop condemning Christianity because of the actions of a few? Isn’t this bigotry and prejudice?

    You said: “i like to remind myself that you don’t represent christianity as a whole. your type of christianity is cultish.”

    Dorian, I do represent true Christian beliefs, not your warped new age version that liberals are trying to replace Christianity with. The true Christian faith holds to the truth that Jesus sacrificed Himself for us. You don’t want to believe that but don’t try to change this faith because you (and other unbelievers) don’t want to acknowledge your sins.

    Like

  49. kayms said

    Princess, thanks for posting Bill’s devotional on Chopra.. he is NO different than the guy, Oprah’s other buddie, James Arthur Ray who, while promoting his “truth” killed people in the process. They are all the same. They like to claim, and think, that they posses the “truth” but they don’t. It’s just a great money maker… again, tell people what they want to hear…

    And then you post this that Bill said…

    “At the same time this garbage is hitting the bookstores, in Washington, DC there is a new bus sign campaign by a humanist group that says, “Why believe in God? Just be good for goodness sake.” This is a play on the Christmas song, “Santa Claus is Coming to Town,” and reinforces the secular mindset that you don’t have to believe in God, just be “good.” Of course the Bible clearly sates that “there are none that are good, no not one,” since we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So once again, in a very public way, this lie from hell that all you have to do is to be good is being reinforced in the minds of the unbelieving masses.” – bill keller.

    And you then state this??:

    BILL KELLER IS HUMAN TRASH AND I WISH SOMEONE WOULD MAKE GOOD ON THOSE DEATH THREATS HE CLAIMS TO GET.

    You make NO sense!! All Bill is saying is that we are not good, we always hurt each other no matter how hard we try not to (as one example). We are always doing what God does not want us to do… ALL of us. He is saying that we NEED Jesus. And you want Bill (human trash) to die because he says this??? And you think Bill is the one with problems? What ego problems you have!!

    Like

  50. 1minionsopinion said

    “Of course the Bible clearly sates that “there are none that are good, no not one,” since we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So once again, in a very public way, this lie from hell that all you have to do is to be good is being reinforced in the minds of the unbelieving masses.” – bill keller.

    Well, I’d say to Kellor, he’d better watch out or Santa won’t get him anything good this year. It’s coal in his stockings for twenty years…

    That kind of attitude is what totally gets my goat. The assumption that good can’t exist on this earth. That Good is on God’s level and we’re all pieces of shit unless we bow to god’s ineffible will. Spare me.

    People can’t help but “fall short” because the demands are too great and there’s not a human alive who can meet them all and still be human.

    Like

  51. obama the antichrist said

    Kay are you saying we should be Jehovahs witnesses knocking on peoples doors and saying “Have you heard the good news?”

    Like

  52. comment in moderation said

    1minion… you are further proving my point…

    “That kind of attitude is what totally gets my goat. The assumption that good can’t exist on this earth. That Good is on God’s level and we’re all pieces of shit unless we bow to god’s ineffible will. Spare me.

    People can’t help but “fall short” because the demands are too great and there’s not a human alive who can meet them all and still be human.”

    This is a perfect example of what I’ve been saying… there is a COMPLETE lack of humility here. A characteristic prevalent among most if not all non believers. Non believers cannot stand to be told that they have faults or that they are wrong. And that God is perfect…

    “we’re all pieces of shit unless we bow to god’s ineffible will. Spare me.”

    First, Christianity doesn’t claim that “good can’t exist”. Where does it say that in the Bible? And it certainly doesn’t say that we are all “pieces of shit”. This is YOUR warped interpretation that reflects your egotistical issues. On the contrary, the Bible says that we are made in God’s image and that He loves us and sacrificed his Son for us.. this hardly fits your description. This is an EXCUSE, just like (yet on the opposite spectrum) Hors belief that Christians are all egotistical and pridefull for claiming that God loves and cares about us…. these are just EXCUSES.

    Your comments show yet more classic misconceptions of non believers. This is another classic example of a non believe twisting the meaning of Christianity… and this is another classic example of a person’s ego preventing them from acknowledging God.

    “People can’t help but “fall short” because the demands are too great and there’s not a human alive who can meet them all and still be human.”

    That’s precisely the point… we are human.. we are NOT perfect. But clearly you don’t like to be told that.

    Like

  53. kay~ms said

    kayms has a comment in moderation.

    Like

  54. Hors Service said

    Aaaargh!

    Too much, Kay, just too much!
    I’m terribly sorry Kay, I would love to answer point-by-point your allegations like I’m used to, but I don’t have the time!
    There’s just too much things that I disagree with!
    And I have still your other post to answer to…

    Please don’t take it as an excuse.

    I will try later on.

    Good night all

    Like

  55. princessxxx said

    kay, you are the only one here that has a problem with humility and ego.

    get over yourself, you are just like keller.

    you wouldn’t know the truth if it sat on your face and farted.

    don’t feel bad, it is my pleasure to point that out to you.

    Like

  56. kay~ms said

    great counter arguments Princess!!

    Hors, I understand; I know it must be frustrating… and of course I know that you don’t agree with anything I’ve said. I’ve given up on going point by point.. it’s too time consuming… if you’ve made a point that you especially want a response to I know that you’ll ask again and the same with me.

    Like

  57. princessxxx said

    thanks kay, it really pays off to be blunt with dimwits such as yourself. 🙂

    Like

  58. dorian said

    i’m not condemning the beliefs of christianity, kay. only yours and billy’s.

    Like

  59. princessxxx said

    anyway, kay, 1minionsopinion never said that was in the bible,
    she said it was an attitude,
    like the attitude that keller expressed in his dullvotional.
    get your facts straight for once in your life.

    Like

  60. princessxxx said

    ***As we are 6 days into the 123rd month of Liveprayer , we have taken care of our october obligations, but we still have to cover the $40,000 November operational budget and make up the $80,000 we have fallen behind since January . I’m simply asking you to pray today and seek the Lord what He is calling you to do to help me during this month to insure that all of our basic operational needs are met and caught up.

    Less than 1/4 of 1% of the people we have ministered to over 40 years have ever given. If the Lord has blessed you through this ministry and you are one of those who has never given to God’s work here, please pray about being a blessing to someone today who can’t give. You make it possible for us to minister to millions daily around the world for FREE. Never forget that God will honor your heart as you obey His voice.

    TO GIVE A GIFT TO LIVEPRAYER, you can use your major credit card on our secure server at: http://www.liveprayer.com under the “Donation” link, you can give using your PayPal account using my email address: bkeller@liveprayer.com,or you can mail your gift to: Liveprayer, 6660 46th Ave. North, St.Petersburg, FL 33709. All gifts to Liveprayer are 100% tax deductible.

    Thank you for taking your stand with me as we bring HIS Truth to this lost world and the hope and love of Christ to the lost and hurting!!!

    In His love and service,

    Bill Keller

    Like

  61. princessxxx said

    i love how keller says,
    “Less than 1/4 of 1% of the people we have ministered to over 40 years have ever given.”

    she hasn’t even been out of jail 20 years. lol

    Like

  62. princessxxx said

    $40,000.00 to run a website for a month. now that is what i call a scam.
    thank you jeeeeeezusssssss.

    Like

  63. kay~ms said

    Princess said: “anyway, kay, 1minionsopinion never said that was in the bible,
    she said it was an attitude,”

    That is my point… people want to blame (use as an excuse) the actions of Christians to reject Christianity. Again, it’s not the fault of Christianity (Jesus) for the wrong actions (or attitudes) of followers. If you want to know what Christianity is truly about refer to the Bible.

    In 1minion’s case though, she used her own distorted views instead of what the Bible actually says.

    Dorian said: “i’m not condemning the beliefs of christianity, kay. only yours and billy’s.”

    again, “great counter arguments”…

    Could you please be just a litte more specific? Exactly what beliefs of mine and Bill’s are you talking about?? Because we both go by what the Bible says.. and that is what Christianity is based on… not the new age beliefs of yours and TBG’s and Hors or OTA’s either… it’s what the Bible says.

    Like

  64. dorian said

    thanks, K! it’s not a counter argument, tho – just a statement of condemnation. i picked that up from you. it does feel somewhat joyful, yeah!

    Like

  65. obama the antichrist said

    awww kay i love how you dont read the bible. at all. wasnt jesus the one who spent his time around sinners and healing them and preaching. Wouldnt you say that the woman was “healed” spiritually because this unknown man gave her the gift of a birthday cake. very christ like. and then the prayer at the bar. again christ like. debate me all you want kay you are just making yourself look like a heartless christian that athiests and other religions…and christians despise. its not new age sweetheart its called love and jesus and God are love. if you dont know that go to a childs sunday school class. and kay have you read the book? no? well then be quiet go to your evil christian good deed hating corner and stop putting christians in a bad light…mmk thanks

    Like

  66. kay~ms said

    OTA… thanks for the Christian “love”… could you be more specific about what I’ve done wrong? I never said it was wrong to give this woman a cake, I’ve never said nice deeds shouldn’t be done… (I’ve said the opposite)… the only thing I think I’ve done is point out the omission of Jesus in this (Christian) story. Are you just offended that I am finding fault with “your” story? You didn’t write it… and besides, you and Dorian set the tone by critisizing Bill Keller in error. My critisism is much the same as for Dorian’s story about the two wolves (she didn’t take it well either by the way)… the story had a very liberal (I / we can do no wrong) slant to it and Jesus was left out. That is my critisism and I think it’s fair and honest. Other than those things, like I said, I thought it was a nice story.. I think I’ve said that several times… so what is your problem? Can’t anyone give an honest critique? Are you one of those people who isn’t interested in the truth only adulation? I know someone like that…. he was in jail, now he’s in a rehab but unfortunately I don’t hold out much hope for him. Because you have to be able to humble yourself before you can ever be helped.. and that he cannot do.

    And yes, the story had “Christ-like” attributes but that certainly doesn’t qualify it to be called “Christianity at it’s finest”. Atheists can be Christ-like.. but that’s not what gives us our salvation. And that is the point that I am making.. which is in response to your’s and Dorian’s critsisms of Bill Keller. He’s got it right, you both have it wrong. It’s not “all about being kind”… and that doesn’t mean I am against being kind, it’s about loving Jesus and accepting what He has done for us.. THAT is the most important thing, and the very thing that Dorian rejects… do you also OTA? because it sure doesn’t seem like you are getting it. And don’t get mad at me, I’m just the messenger. You should read the Bible OTA.

    Like

  67. kay~ms said

    uh, no, you guys were “condemning” me since the SNL days remember? I was an ignorant, intolerant racist for stating truths about Obama. Hey, maybe I learned it from you!

    Like

  68. obama the antichrist said

    O kay. The omission of Jesus Christ. HE PRAYED AT THE BAR THERE IS JESUS RIGHT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!! this story is supposed to be an example of how christians shouldnt be afraid of doing a good deed. There is no you cant do wrong slant at all its merely a story, an example. I believe that Jesus Christ is my saviour and I mention that when I can. However, mentioning Jesus is not enough you need to show christs love and that is what this man is doing. and my apologies for my anger, bad week and my patience and kindnes has been run thin, im sorry.

    Kay I dont like Bill Keller. What I have read/heard for him is that he sounds unaccepting of others and he sounds extreme. Such as glenn beck/rush/olbermann/pelosi. I dont agree with that at all. For example. I do not agree with him preaching against the islam capitol hill thing. Islam has a smaller population than Christianity and people are rarely converted to Islam. Then “most people dont believe in the love of Jesus Christ” is wrong. 34% of unbelievers is not most, its not even half. Most of the things I read from him that you have posted have a condescending tone to them.

    Like

  69. dorian said

    nah, i learned from you, kay, and you learned from billy. luckily i learned from my grandmother’s good christian ways first. i know there’s good christian in you somewhere. if you leave the keller cult you may realize that God truly is love and not fear or hate.

    racist, i think you’re not. truths about obama? what, that he’s muslim and that he’s the “annointed” one of the muslim prophecies?
    ahahahahhahhahah (my OTAism for the day)

    Like

  70. kay~ms said

    I never stated that Obama was a Muslim.. never and neither did Bill in his devotional. I don’t know how many times I’ve had to say that. But what I did post (Bill’s devotional) stated truths about Islamic beliefs and the links to Obama’s actions and associations. If you still think it was to prove that he was a Muslim, you are STILL missing the point. But anyway, you and TTw and others insisted that what I posted was racist, intolerant and ignorant and that is when the “condemnation” started…and that was the source of my “Reverse Ignorance” article. And clearly, nothing has changed.

    You said: “if you leave the keller cult you may realize that God truly is love and not fear or hate.”

    Dorian, I do know that God is love. And obviously, where we differ is that I also know that God requires something from us in return. And that is to obey Him. To live according to His will. He is sovereign and it is His right to want us to live a certain way. The fear you talk about is from not trying to live according to His will. The new age philosophy that you subscribe to, convieniently eliminates the concept of sin and subsequently, the fear. Yeah, it sounds great but it’s completely ignoring God’s right to will us to live in a way that is good for all of us and also acknowledges Him as the all mighty and perfect Power that He is. This requires humility and submission of our lives to Him. It requires selflessness. And that is what is lacking in non believers. They have too much ego and pride to do that.

    You say that you know their is a “good” Christian in me somewhere… I would really like it if you would explain how I am a “bad” Christian. And remember, we are talking about Christianity according to the Bible, not your (the “Christian” liberal’s) distorted, self designated version of Christianity.

    And I acknowledge that I am not a perfect Christian, but I do hold to the most important aspects of Christianity, which is not “ALL about spreading love and kindness”, it’s about loving God first and foremost and showing that love thru obedience.

    And your interpretation of “love and kindness” is also distorted… you think that to disagree with someone else’s beliefs is to hate them…. and that is just not so. It’s just one of the many liberal misconceptions. Your view, the new age liberal view, does nothing to stand up against those things that are against God. On the contrary, it supports it. That is what you are promoting. And accusing me and others of hate and intolerance is just part of your assault against God and truth. oh.. there’s that dirty word again that liberals hate so much…

    Your philosphy (the new age liberal philosophy) leaves no room for anyone to disagree with your views, and if they do they are full of hate etc. Hardly liberalistic, how ironic.

    It’s extremely faulty. And it violates my right to believe in one truth (of which there can only be)… that right there shows how faulty your liberalistic theology is.

    Like

  71. comment in moderation said

    kay has a comment in moderation.

    Like

  72. 1minionsopinion said

    “This is a perfect example of what I’ve been saying… there is a COMPLETE lack of humility here. A characteristic prevalent among most if not all non believers. Non believers cannot stand to be told that they have faults or that they are wrong. And that God is perfect…”

    I’m perfectly aware I’m flawed and often wrong about a lot of things. What’s great about that is my willingness to admit what’s wrong and flawed and have a desire to fix my flawed beliefs, or mistaken assumptions. I’m human. I fully admit there are things I’ll never be able to do, no matter how much I might wish to be “perfect” or whatever. Actually, I have no wishes to be perfect at anything. There should always be more to learn, more ways to improve.

    Doesn’t God have to be perfect because everyone expects god to be perfect? An imperfect god would be an improvement because then you could blame a god for being a goofball about some stuff.

    As it seems now, no one is allowed to question god or anything to do with biblical writings without getting labeled a heathen, a demon, an atheist, or getting shunned by fellow church goers for having the gall to question something everyone else ignores or brushes under the carpet.

    Like

  73. 1minionsopinion said

    It’s also the assumption that good can’t exist without god. That seems to be the attitude atheists get faced with everyday. Without god, how come you aren’t out murdering people and eating babies!? How can you have any morals if you don’t get from the bible?

    The idiocy of those statements should be pointed to every single day.

    Like

  74. princessxxx said

    KAY SAID “I never stated that Obama was a Muslim.. never and neither did Bill in his devotional. I don’t know how many times I’ve had to say that.”

    nice twisting of the truth kay. how many times do i have to repeat this.

    Is President Barack Hussein Obama the Fulfillment of Islamic Prophecy
    http://liveprayer.com/ddarchive3.cfm?id=3605

    “In Christianity, you have to make the conscious decision to accept Jesus Christ into your heart and life by faith. In Islam, if your father is a Muslim, the children are Muslim by birth. Barack Hussein Obama’s father was a Muslim.” – bill keller

    AND KAY SAYS THIS “And I acknowledge that I am not a perfect Christian, but I do hold to the most important aspects of Christianity, which is not “ALL about spreading love and kindness”, it’s about loving God first and foremost and showing that love thru obedience.

    you seem to have no problem lying. thou shalt not lie, remember? not very obedient to god now are you?

    and if that isn’t enough proof that keller did say obama IS a muslim, watch this again.

    Like

  75. princessxxx said

    kay, you are no more a christian than i have a rocket coming out of my ass.

    Like

  76. dorian said

    kay have you ever wondered how practically everybody says the same things to you? and you say everybody here has “distorted” and “erroneous” beliefs? how can so many people be so off the mark and you’re the only one that’s “right”? i’m sorry but i firmly believe you are self-deluded, if one were to go just by what you say repeatedly. you are definitely intolerant and unaccepting of others and the more you twist things around, the more obvious those traits are. if i can accept you for beliefs, why can’t you accept me and others for our beliefs? i was mimicking your ways when i said i condemned you. i guess if you really do find joy and comfort in harboring negativity and contention, well, to each his own…as long as you find peace outside of combat duty here.

    Like

  77. dorian said

    oh, and here comes princess. good luck, kay.

    Like

  78. princessxxx said

    that’s right kay, keep on lying, i’m going to call you out every time.

    don’t feel bad kay,
    calling you out on your fraud, that is just me being “good for goodness sake”

    Like

  79. kay~ms said

    OTA, no need to apologize, I am guilty of the same thing (expressing my anger and a lack of patience etc). I shouldn’t have critisized you on that front.. I apologize. But it is frustrating when accusations are made that are not true.

    OTA, if you only knew how much Bill Keller could enlighten you. I do acknowledge some of the things you’ve said about him. He is “rough around the edges” so to speak. I do not think he is a “perfect” Christian. And I believe he has said the same about himself. A person cannot truly be a Christian without acknowledging that. But what Bill says is not without value. (And my point is that what he says is the “ultimate” value because he focuses primarily on the salvation offered to us by God. That is his main focus. But aside from that, here is the another thing that I believe you are lacking the understanding of, that Bill is also focused on…

    You said: ” I do not agree with him preaching against the Islam capital Hill thing. Islam has a smaller population than Christianity and people are rarely converted to Islam”.

    Well, let me show you what Bill sees concerning this.. you say that “people are rarely converted to Islam.

    I can tell you that because of that event where Muslims got together and prayed on Capital Hill, MORE people were converted to Islam. And Bill knows that is what their motive was… remember on their website where they stated “our time has come”? Their goal is to convert as many people as possible to Islam. A true Christian knows that Islam is not the truth and leads people away from Christ. So, is it good for even MORE people to be converted to Islam? And isn’t even a “few” too many? Bill thinks so. Why is it wrong to state that what the Muslims did on Capital Hill is detrimental to Christianity? It shouldn’t be wrong for him to state that what they were doing was leading people away from Christ. And that is what he did. He understood the true agenda of that event. And that doesn’t mean that he thinks that they were all “bad” people and it doesn’t mean that he hates them. He is not happy with the people who are aggressively trying to spread Islam in this country (or anywhere). Any true Christian would not like that.

    Now, could Bill be less disdainful while stating his objections? Yes, but if you will notice, even Jesus expresses a kind of disdain towards the pharasees… He detested their obvious lack of consideration for God.. He knew first hand how hurtfull it was to His Father. As does Bill when many in society today also have a lack of consideration for God. And it is detestable.. it’s a complete lack of humility, selflessness and love for God when He has done so much for us.

    when Bill spoke out against that event it was because he knew that even more people would be led down the wrong path away from Christ.

    When I said that Bill could enlighten you, this is what I meant… you don’t see the active, aggressive movements that are AGAINST God. Bill does. And he is fighting against it… he is not being quiet about it while they are steadily moving forward in leading people away from Christ and the truth of what He has done for us.

    And as for your story, again, it was a story about kindness (on the surface) but seeing it from the perspective of God, it’s message is promoting the “liberal new age” Christianity that is spreading so fast. And that new age “Christianity” lacks focus on Jesus, on what He did for us, and also lacks focus on our faults and why we need Jesus… I find tremendous fault with this new “Christianity”… it’s an assault against God… and it’s spreading in very sneaky ways.. like the story that you posted. You didn’t realize it. Which, reminds me of another very similar situation… the term “Xmas”.. Christians practice that “shortcut” all the time.. it’s so much easier to write. The only problem is that it symbolizes taking Christ out of Christmas. Who ever thought up that “shortcut” possibly didn’t realize what they were doing.. but more likely knew exactly what they were doing… and Christians use this term all the time… You have to be on your guard all the time… you have to realize that there are people who are genuinely AGAINST God! And are fighting to lead people away from Him. Bill realizes this. And so do I.

    The fault again with Compalo’s story was that he didn’t mention Jesus once, nor was there any mention of the need for this woman to turn away from her life of sin. Jesus and sin were completely avoided in this story. Yes, it did mention “prayer” and a “church where parties are thrown for prostitutes”. OTA, this could represent quite a few “religions” other than Christianity. And I can tell you that is exactly what it represents.. it’s not true Christianity. And that doesn’t mean that I’m saying that Christianity doesn’t promote kindness to sinners. What I’m saying is that FIRST AND FOREMOST Christianity is about Christ.. not about kindness to sinners without letting them know about Christ and to turn away from their sins.

    Like

  80. k said

    Kay has a comment in moderation.

    Like

  81. 1minionsopinion said

    I never thought about the obedience angle. Why does god demand so much obedience? What’s wrong with taking a stand and saying no when you get to something you don’t want to follow? I don’t think every command deserves to be followed. The fact that humans automatically defer to an authority on everything is pretty disturbing. Also problematic is how we deal with our decisions in a crowd. Nobody really wants to go against the flow, do they. The punishments for disobedience always seem so strict, don’t they?

    As a kid they have to be, and as grown ups some of the rule breakers need a bigger smackdown than they’re getting in some cases, but when it comes to choosing whether two people can marry or who can vote, or who can own land, why does anyone defer to some ancient book that can only inform us of what people used to do? It should have little bearing on what we’re doing now.

    Like

  82. princessxxx said

    kay, you worship bill keller, not jesus.

    obama the antichrist is right, you need to read your bible instead of keller’s bullshit.
    ota is way more enlightened than keller will ever be.

    kay says, “Now, could Bill be less disdainful while stating his objections? Yes, but if you will notice, even Jesus expresses a kind of disdain towards the pharasees…”
    guess what kay, bill keller is not jesus, jesus judges, not bill keller

    kay says, “What I’m saying is that FIRST AND FOREMOST Christianity is about Christ.. not about kindness to sinners without letting them know about Christ and to turn away from their sins.”
    kay, how abouts you worry about your own sins, LIAR, instead of what other people are doing?

    kay says, “I do not think he is a “perfect” Christian. And I believe he has said the same about himself.”
    no, kay, for all the years i have watched and read keller, he has never, ever said he wasn’t a perfect christian. quite the contrary. he repeatedly states that HE is the only christian leader with the guts to lead. in fact, let me prove that by quoting him from todays dullvotional.

    “What would Jesus do about the current healthcare debate? A few months ago, President Obama held a conference call with “religious leaders,” trying to illicit their support in his desire to socialize the healthcare industry. Obviously, I was not invited on this call, only those “religious leaders” who don’t have the guts to hold him accountable for opposing God on every single social issue of our day” -bill keller

    kay says, “But it is frustrating when accusations are made that are not true.”

    WELL, THEN KAY, WHY DON’T YOU STOP MAKING UNTRUE ACCUSATIONS?

    HAHAHA, KAY YOU JUST KEEP GETTING DEEPER AND DEEPER INTO YOUR OWN BULLSHIT!

    but wait, there is more to come……..

    Like

  83. k said

    Princess.. do you even know what you’re talking about??

    Like

  84. Princessxxx said

    oh give me a break kay,
    i know exactly what i’m talking about.
    i’m talking about you being a liar
    and anyone that isn’t delusional can see that i am right.
    you can’t deny it
    because it’s true.
    but you will deny it,
    BECAUSE YOU ARE A LIAR

    IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT DISAGREES WITH ME? IF SO, LET ME KNOW.

    Like

  85. princessxxx said

    kay, it’s you that has no idea what they are talking about,
    you just parrot your god bill keller.

    Like

  86. Hey Kay, I don’t have “new age” beliefs. Hinduism is ancient, probably older than Judaism.

    My take on what you call “sin” is that it is a blanket term used by Christians that can be defined any dang way they want to define it based on their INTERPRETATION of the Bible. There could be no good without evil. The highest reality transcends polar opposites such as good and evil, even being and non-being.

    btw, have you had a chance to check any of those links about macroevolution? The PBS web site is quite good for an introduction. Talk Origins is a better source for specific questions and it has links to scientific papers and other resources that document the evidence.

    What gets me about fundie Christians who argue against evolution are all the LIES they say, such as claiming that there are no transitional fossils between land animals and whales. While that was mainly true thirty years or so ago, many transitional forms have been found since then, pakicetus, ambulocetus, etc. Whales with legs!

    Creationists seem confused that science changes when new evidence is discovered. They also don’t seem to get that in order to replace an existing theory, a competing theory has to account for the evidence at least as well.

    Creationists seem to think that when new fossils or other evidence is discovered and media reports say the story of evolution changes yet again, that it somehow invalidates evolution. What happens is that we learn more about the details of how evolution happens. It doesn’t change the big picture that we have overwhelming evidence that it DOES happen and that we ARE related quite closely to apes.

    So, I’m still waiting for a definitive statement from you about human evolution, representing YOUR view and not necessarily Bill Keller’s or any other party line. Do YOU agree that there IS evidence that SUGGESTS we DID evolve from apes? And, if we didn’t, WHY is there SO MUCH evidence that makes it look like we did?

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  87. a brief recap of SOME of the evidence humans evolved from apes:

    Fossils in the rocks: at least a dozen transitional species from the past six to eight million years

    Fossils in the genes: endogenous retroviruses and pseudogenes at the same place in chimp DNA as human DNA. Human chromosome 2 showing physical evidence of being two ape chromosomes fused together.

    And for evolution in general: nested hierarchies of many different types of data that produce the same tree of life.

    Like

  88. Hello this thread^^

    @Kay

    Let’s pass on the Bill Keller stuff and other non-relevant but offensing parts of your answer.

    Let’s imagine that my house is burning. It’s my fault, I left something on the fire, I was stupid. The firemen arrive.
    Here, the attitude of the evangelist fireman will be to preach me and culpabilize me until the whole house has burned down to ashes, and then propose me to rebuild one, but first I have to join them, and the house will be the Standard Fireproof House, a cube of concrete with nothing burnable in it, because there’s nothing in it.
    That’s not what I expect of firemen.
    That’s not even efficient. To me, if you would like to convert people, you should not tell them that belief in God is requested for your help.

    To me, Christianity is all about helping other people, whatever God they may believe in. If you’re Christian, you’re kind even to your enemies. You don’t go and tell them all that they are sinners and all their ancestors are in hell.

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