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news and things sacred and irreverent put together by opinionated people.

Countdown Special Comment – Racial discrimination inherent in the Tea Party movement

Posted by dorian on February 17, 2010

olbermann has something to say:


89 Responses to “Countdown Special Comment – Racial discrimination inherent in the Tea Party movement”

  1. kay~ms said

    oh brother..not him again.. this is going to take awhile.. I’ll just throw out a few comments now based on his 1st minute of “commentary”…

    uh.. I love the way liberals twist things… such as calling it racial discrimination to require that non citizens FOLLOW THE LAW to become LEGAL citizens. How ignorant and distorted of Olbermann and liberals. you guys don’t miss ANY opportunity to call out “RACISTS” anytime someone involved has a different color of skin and the view is anti liberal… I JUST had to listen to that silly pot saturated Bill Maher say it yet again… those tea party people are just racists… it’s absolutely absurd. So, when ever any other president had people who did not agree with their political views… what were they called since they couldn’t be called racist??? And why can’t that apply to Obama’s detracters as well? Because he’s black. So, now you get to use the race card. It’s so sickening, absurd and OBVIOUS.

    The idea that people might not agree with Obama because of his actual views… well, who ever heard of that?? That’s “crazy”… it’s only been around since… the begining of organized government I guess… it’s just not applicable with Obama for some reason…


  2. dorian said

    you know it’s not about obama and people not agreeing with him. if it were that simple, there would be more people in those movements and they would include blacks, hispanics, asians, gays, middle easterners and the rest. do you see those faces in those crowds?

    it’s about what constitutes the teabaggers’ rhetoric and agenda. oh and everybody’s seen those posters and placards, right? pictures don’t lie.


  3. kay~ms said

    Dorian, you are referring to exceptions… of course there are people who are racist.. and they are involved in the tea party. You’ve referred to those signs before… what is the ratio of these racist signs to the number of people in the crowd and even in all of the signs??

    I have heard over and over now that the ONLY reason for Obama’s opposition is a racist one. And the most recent was by Olbermann here and Maher in his new HBO show… “it’s racism”… you are right.. it is NOT that simple… people DO actually disagree with Obma’s socialistic oriented political views. I am speaking from my own situation! I am not a racist… I wish I could agree with Obama! I was HAPPY that a black man was elected president… if you and Maher, and Olberamnn try and tell me that I’m racist… you all are WRONG!!!! And I am not alone!!! Geeeeezzzzz!!!!


  4. kay~ms said

    And, I’ve never looked at the faces in the crowds… I would think that those peole you listed are there… keep in mind, they are minorities, so there isn’t as many of them.. there ARE lots of people that fit those descriptions that don’t agree with Obama’s policies… Glenn Beck has had many of them on his show.

    I don’t know how you can say that you “know” that it’s not about is policies… that would mean that he would be the first president in history who didn’t have movements of detractors because of his policies. Can’t you see how narrow minded this belief is?


  5. dorian said

    i never thought you were racist, kay. i don’t feel that in you.

    glenn beck and jerry springer are of the same genre – everything they do is to draw audiences to their show and money for themselves. beck is an alarmist and a fear mongerer. he has no credibility.


  6. Enkill_Eridos said

    Bill Keller is not of the same genre, but he uses the same alarmist/fear mongering tactics. I think all of Bill’s credibility has gone out the window when the first thing you see on his daily devotionals is GOLDFORSOULS.COM now accepting DIAMONDS. You half expect it to be a message from the Catholic Church.


  7. Enkill_Eridos said

    I really want to do this to a Sarah Palin clip.


  8. kay~ms said

    “i never thought you were racist, kay. i don’t feel that in you.”

    Thanks Dorian… I am not a racist.. and the point is that MOST people are like me… most people in the tea party movement are not racist. They truly do not like where Obama is trying to take this country. The healthcare changes he is trying to get passed will affect many of those people in the movement dramatically. They are SCARED… not racist.

    I really do believe that MSNBC and other liberal venues and people (Bill Maher for ex.) are brainwashing people. It is absured to actually believe that all or the majority of Obama’s detractors are racist! It is absolutely absurd.

    “glenn beck and jerry springer are of the same genre – everything they do is to draw audiences to their show and money for themselves. beck is an alarmist and a fear mongerer. he has no credibility.”

    oh…ugh… there you go again… making an authoritively toned comment (like anything that comes from you is fact) but not backing it up with anything. you have to know that I’m going to ask you to elaborate and provide reasons (specific) for this statement of “fact”. And you have to know that if you don’t, which, 99% of the time, you never do, it is only going to make you look bad for trying to push something off as fact or truth while knowing that it is not.. it is only a biased, uninformed opinion (or even a lie? or plain and outright ignorance?)…it is what you WANT to be the truth, what you need to believe to be the truth.

    Now, how is ANY of the liberal commentators like Olbermann for example.. any different than “glenn beck and Jerry springer”? They are not trying to draw audiences to their show?? and more money for themselves?? Oh, they definitely are… they’re just clearly not as good at it as Glenn Beck.

    Glenn Beck wouldn’t have the largest audience of all if he had “no credibility”.. that is what you want / need to believe but it is not fact.

    I can’t think of anything that Beck has put forth that is not true… he (HE) backs up everything he says!

    Glenn Beck has had people removed from the White House! I would say he has a lot of credibility… you making an authoritive “factual” statement cannot change that…except in your own mind.

    So, can you tell me what you base your statement on? That Glenn Beck has no credibility?

    If you do, I will take back everything I’ve said.

    I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be attacking you.. it’s just that you do this all the time… I’m just asking you to back up your statements that I strongly disagree with.

    And making “alarmist” and “fear mongerer” accusations is right in line with the racists accusations… it’s clearly a popular liberal tactic. This is exaclty what gives power to the “reverse ignorance” syndrome in our country… gaining control by use of false accusations. Labeling people with these “bad” social “taboos” if they stray from liberal dogma keeps them “in line”. Now who are the fear mongers???

    Liberalism is so full of hypocrisy.. among other things.


  9. kay~ms said

    I have a comment in moderation.


  10. dorian said

    kay, you’re always so angry and combative. say what you will but no one here needs to prove anything to you.

    “Of the Seven Deadly Sins, anger is possibly the most fun. To lick your wounds, to smack your lips over grievances long past, to roll over your tongue the prospect of bitter confrontations still to come, to savour to the last toothsome morsel both the pain you are given and the pain you are giving back – in many ways it is a feast fit for a king. The chief drawback is that what you are wolfing down is yourself. The skeleton at the feast is you.”

    Frederick Buechner

    “Do not be afraid to allow the Holy Spirit to reveal any unforgiveness or bitterness. The longer you hide it, the stronger it will become and the harder your heart will grow. Stay tenderhearted.”

    John Bevere


  11. dorian said

    for kay. my favorite (christian) song –


  12. Enkill_Eridos said

    I don’t deny that ALL of the mass media outlets is using fear mongering, and gross misinformation as a tactic. I actually know they are using such tactics. I actually posted the complete Healthcare Reform Bill unedited in its entirety.(before the Republicans started to ammend it so that it didn’t hurt the insurance corporations bottom line, god forbid the rich stop making as much money as they have in the past.) Guess what? No one frackin’ read it, which proved to me that you think that if someone comes up with a different conclusion on EVERYTHING that goes against your views, they are automatically evil. It also tells me you would rather have someone else tell you what it means, just as long as they think the same as you. (Which you use this Totalitarianism attitude. Like no one you agree with has a personal agenda in some way. But everyone that disagrees with you has an agenda. The truth of the world and how it works is this there are no absolutes. There is no black and no white but many colors and many shades of grey. (Which is actually what Black and White is) Here is the thing THE MASS MEDIA OUTLETS CANNOT BE TRUSTED IN TELLING ANYTHING TRUTHFUL. MAINLY BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME THE TRUTH DOESN’T SELL AS WELL AS A STORY LOADED WITH OPINIONATED ARROGANT GARBAGE THAT IS NOT THEIR OWN VIEWS BUT THEIR PRODUCERS. EVER NOTICE ON GLENN BECK, HANNITY, LARRY KING, SARAH PALIN AND WHOEVER ELSE IS ON THE MASS MEDIA OUTLET PAYROLL THAT THEY SHUT UP A “GUEST” VERY QUICKLY WHEN THAT GUEST HAS A DIFFERENCING OPINION AND HAS MORE INTELLIGENCE THAN THE ACTOR, THEY ARE SHUT UP VERY QUICKLY AND MOVE BACK TO THEIR OBVIOUSLY SCRIPTED RESPONSES? THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT ARE DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY. THEY ARE RESISTING THINGS THAT MAY ADVERSELY AFFECT SOME PEOPLE, BUT THE MAJORITY OF THE CITIZENS WILL BENEFIT. THOSE THAT HAVE GIVEN UP THEIR LIVES FOR FREEDOM OVER THE 200 SOMETHING YEARS OF HISTORY OVER THIS COUNTRY ARE STARTING TO DIE IN VAIN. WHY? BECAUSE CONSERVATIVE AND PROGRESSIVE, RIGHT AND LEFT, THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY. TWO OPPOSING FORCES THAT WILL NOT YIELD. AND NOT EVERYONE CAN BE PLACED IN ONE OF THOSE CATEGORIES, CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU SAY. AND DON’T SAY YOU DON’T HAVE AN OPPRESSIVE ATTITUDE. YOU DO, YOU AUTOMATICALLY LABEL PEOPLE THAT HAS A DIFFERING OPINION BY USING NEGATIVE STATEMENTS. “LIBERAL POISON” IS A NEGATIVE STATEMENT. BECAUSE YOU ARE SAYING THAT LIBERTY, FREEDOM, AND EVERYTHING THIS GOVERNMENT AND COUNTRY IS SUPPOSED TO STAND FOR IS POISON. YOU LABEL PROGRESSIVES THAT TITLE WHEN THEY DO NOT DESERVE TO BE CALLED THAT HIGHLY HONORED LABEL. THE RIGHT AND LEFT ARE DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY. THEY DESTROY THE PROCESS, AND EVERYTHING THAT WILL HURT THOSE THAT ARE WEALTHY.

    I did not use caps because I am mad. I used caps because almost none of you actually listen. Almost none of you is actually willing to look at the raw data and come up with your own conclusions. Why? Because most of Americans are lazy. The 20th century was actually a step backwards from the 50’s on. There was no better morals back then. The 50’s is when the fundamentalist movement really was in full swing, and everyone who came up with a conclusion other than the leaders and people in power with this way of thought, they were quick to be quiet or disappear. Then the Civil Rights movement (Do you think that was another win for Satan Kay?) In the 60’s when the Nixon administration coined the terms “Liberals” and “Conservatives”. Nixon called the Hippie movement “Liberal Terrorists.” When they were far from true Liberalism. I have no doubt in my mind that Nixon tricked this nation into going to war with Vietnam, much like what the second Nixon, oops I mean George W. Bush Jr’s administration did with the “War on Terror”. (Sr. was a way better president than Jr. But then again so was Nixon!)

    See we see a destructive cycle up until the 1990’s. Then things got better. Then the 2000 election happened when the democratic process was subverted, by the Republican party. (Even if the recount isn’t an obvious example, how about without Florida Gore still had the majority vote? It’s a corrupt system, it didn’t start with Obama, much like how the Stimulus packages DID NOT START WITH OBAMA. If you remember I was against it, but because of the professional respect of every person that holds office Obama did not stop this plan from happening when he took over. Much like how no President has yet to lift the Cuban Embargo even though the Cold War ended in the late 80’s early 90’s. The economy was starting to go under in 2003. It got worse in 2004, and it progressed until it was apparent and it “came at us with surprise.” Even though in 2003 economists said we were looking at another Recession possibly a Depression. Republicans just said its those crazy Democrats. Conservatives were saying the “Liberals” just wanted to spread fear. And then in 2008 suddenly we were in a crisis and it was the “Liberals” Fault. The right and left are destroying this country, and then when someone wants to do something that benefits the vast majority and hurts the small minority (In this case I am speaking of the vast majority (anything but wealthy.) and the minority(the wealthy, those that have the power to directly influence decisions etc.) is the evil of the recent past. But of course if the wealthy find a way to use the tax payers to stay wealthy to the Republicans that’s okay that’s the American dream.

    THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT ARE BEING DECIEVED BY FUNDAMENTALISM IN ALL FORMS AND THE MASS MEDIA (Which is only trying to make money off you. That’s it..Political news belongs to rich special interest groups funded by the rich of both the right and the left. You are all acting like sheep and allow yourselves to be deceived. Which is why this blog no longer has political debates. Mainly because those interested in WHAT THIS BLOG IS SUPPOSED TO BE. So those that are actually in the middle ground, they went somewhere else. Somewhere were people actually have intelligence. Where INTELLIGENT debates happen (the debates with kay sadly are not intelligent, because she is too lazy to actually read something that effects her. She trusts that the highly paid people in the Mass Media will tell her what it means. Even though they are not telling her what it actually means but what she wants to hear. And lets go to the Democrat side. Those people are not intelligent either, because they do the same but watch people that tell them what they want to hear.) Guess what out here in the middle there is all truth, there is no actual fighting just intelligent conversations that uses facts not opinions in political matters. I have posted more about religion than about actual politics. I have tried, but no one actually wants to talk real hard facts about politics. Just the facts as Olberman sees them or how Hannity sees them.


  13. dorian said

    |-) Hey i read the health reform bill!

    e_e you can always visit http://1minionsopinion.wordpress.com/ or http://enkilleridos.wordpress.com/ for an intelligence fix or some of the other links on our blogroll.


  14. Kay said: “uh.. I love the way liberals twist things”
    that’s nothing compared to the way YOU can twist things around, kay. I’ve seen it.

    E_E said: “the debates with kay sadly are not intelligent”
    yes, because of the way she twists and distorts clearly expressed thoughts to be the opposite of what they say. That’s the main reason I haven’t been participating much lately in this blog. I wish we could find someone to represent the conservative point of view who can argue intelligently to support their position instead of just quoting sound bytes from their gurus at Fox news or liveprayer.

    No it’s not because you’re right, kay, because on many issues you demonstrate ignorance or faulty understanding of the subject.


  15. kay~ms said

    You are right about that.. I am angry and combative.. I am going to try and be less judgemental.

    Dorian, I’m not saying you have to prove anything… I’m just asking for you to explain your comments. Granted, I could be nicer about it. It’s just that I see this all the time.. where you make statements but don’t elaborate (or justify) them. Don’t you think that it’s fair to ask? Because otherwise, it gives the impression that you expect people to believe what you say just because you say it… right? And also, if you can’t back up these statements with examples then it is really is just nothing more than propaganda aimed at manipulating the beliefs of others.

    I just really want to know…do you really, honestly believe that Glenn Beck has no credibility?


  16. kay~ms said

    TBG, you’re comment was just more “propaganda”… why? because you didn’t back it up with any examples… as usual.

    I think the reason you haven’t been on this blog is because I keep asking you what your reasons (specific reasons) are for rejecting what Jesus did for you.. washing away your sins by dying on the cross.

    You still haven’t answered that… and why you have chosen to try and lead others away from believing this.


  17. kay~ms said

    “Do not be afraid to allow the Holy Spirit to reveal any unforgiveness or bitterness. The longer you hide it, the stronger it will become and the harder your heart will grow. Stay tenderhearted.”

    I’m not the one who hides it…


  18. Examples Kay? You want examples of how you twist and distort things? Look at some of the threads where we debated various subjects such as Buddhism and evolution. Count the number of times where you would quote something I said back to me and then add your interpretation of what YOU thought I said which turned out to be the OPPOSITE of what I actually said. It happened many times, at least a dozen, maybe more. I haven’t rejected what Jesus did. Jesus tried to share with others how to experience union with the divine as he did. I appreciate that, even if many others don’t.


  19. dorian said

    whats the point in elaborating or justifying when you twist the meaning around kay? you see what you want to see. i’ve given up on that a long time ago, when tothewire and lawman was still around. even TBG stopped trying. he lasted longer than any of us. i’m not walking away from here, though. i promised tothewire i’ll stay.


  20. Since you repeatedly demonstrated a lack of comprehension when replying to my comments, it makes me question how competent you are at understanding other things you read, including the Bible. Whatever works for you is fine. Your path is fine for you. The arrogance you show at insisting that your interpretation is the ONLY correct one for everyone is laughable though when you demonstrate such incompetence.


  21. kay~ms said

    ok.. first, you didn’t answer my question… yet AGAIN. talk about twisting…

    I said: I think the reason you haven’t been on this blog is because I keep asking you what your reasons (specific reasons) are for rejecting what Jesus did for you.. washing away your sins by dying on the cross.

    in response, you said: “I haven’t rejected what Jesus did. Jesus tried to share with others how to experience union with the divine as he did. ”

    You know what I am asking… but YOU have twisted what I said… because you do not want to give me a direct answer.. so, I now have to try and ask it a different way.. hopefully this will be the last time I have to ask.. but somehow I doubt it.

    Why do you reject the Gospels as truth?

    I can’t believe you actually accuse me of twisting and distorting!!

    And you know, it very well could be that I DON’T UNDERSTAND what you are explaining to me.. your beliefs… because they don’t make sense! I’m not trying to twist anything.. I’m trying to UNTWIST what you are saying because you won’t give me a direct answer.


  22. kay~ms said

    Dorian, I’m just asking for you to explain your statement(s). That you choose not to only leaves me with the conclusion that you can’t. If I am going to “twist” your answer why not answer so I will prove you right? This is so silly.

    TBG… I’ve listened to “your” way… and I’ve asked questions. Based on the answers that I could get from you.. your way doesn’t make sense. I’ve listened to other ways also… none of them make sense. That is one of my main arguments for why I make the claim that Jesus is the only way. And this argument is valid because you haven’t proven that any other way makes more sense. You INSIST that I accept your belief that there are other ways but you haven’t convinced me that these ways are worthy of belief…. You haven’t given me any credentials to justify these beliefs. Nothing that even compares to the Bible. I’m not being ignorant and /or arrogant.. I’m being practical and sensible.


  23. The point I was making is that more often than not, you misconstrue what I said and twist it to where you claim I said something completely opposite to what I did say. Now perhaps I was not clear enough, and it is incredibly difficult to communicate about spiritual matters due to the limitations of language especially when such limitations are not recognized. On the other hand, even when I was speaking on straightforward matters such as evolution you quite frequently twisted my words, which leads me to believe that the problem is more with your abilities or lack of them than with me.

    So what I said didn’t make sense to you. Fine. Obviously my way is not your way. But for you to insist that the way you CAN understand, fundamentalist Christianity, is the ONLY way for EVERYONE is extreme arrogance. On this though you are not alone. It is the mainstream position of most religions that their way is the ONLY way.

    As for your specific questions, Jesus did NOT wash away my sins by dying on the cross. That is your opinion (and the opinion of Christians obviously) that I disagree with. There is no such thing as sin. It’s a useless word. I’m not saying that there isn’t good and evil, or that bad doesn’t exist. But I do not agree with the Judeo-Christian concept of sin.

    I do not reject the Gospels as truth. But the truth I get from them seems to be different than the one you get. Go figure.


  24. Credentials? Try direct experience and personal knowledge. These can’t be shared, so if you want the reasons why I believe what I do, you’re out of luck, sorry. I have my reasons why I reject the fundamentalist version of Christianity, although I can agree with Christian mystics and theologians on many issues.

    I *can* share one of the reasons I reject the fundie viewpoint: it is demonstrably out of touch with reality regarding the FACT of evolution and the age of the earth. Imagine if someone came to you claiming to have ultimate truth but insisted that part of their beliefs is that the earth is flat in spite of all evidence to the contrary. Imagine these flat earthers lobbying school boards for equal time in geography classrooms. That’s the situation I see going on, and it amazes me that so many people can be SO STUPID!


  25. vitally important comment awaiting moderation. Kay’s question about credentials is ANSWERED!


  26. kay~ms said

    yes, credentials for your “belief” that sin doesn’t exist.. that we are not responsible for our actions.. (is that right?) would be the next step.


  27. kay~ms said

    “On the other hand, even when I was speaking on straightforward matters such as evolution you quite frequently twisted my words,”

    You call it word twisting… some might call it valid arguments… could you please give specific examples so I can defend myself? It is impossible for me to defend myself if you do not give examples. What you are talking about could just be your distorted (biased) view, which has been evident many times before. And I WILL give a couple of examples to back up my claim… you erroneously claimed that no 1st century writers ever mentioned Jesus.. I had to point out to you that that was NOT true. And also, you said that Jesus fulfilled “NONE”.. “NOT ONE!” of the Messianic prophecies. Also NOT TRUE. These were twisted, and BIASED claims… things you WANT to be true.


  28. THERE YOU GO! You twisted my words AGAIN! I did NOT say we are not responsible for our actions. I did NOT say that, yet you imply that I did. You wanted examples, you just provided ANOTHER one!

    THAT is why I stopped participating in this blog, kay. It is so frustrating to try to debate with somebody who continually misconstrues and misrepresents what one says.


  29. I admitted I was wrong about there being no non-Christian sources about Jesus in the historical record (although it is still amazingly sketchy if He was as important as Christians claim He was).

    It seems though that you Kay, will never ever admit you are wrong about ANYTHING. Sounds like a personal problem to me. You know what, I’ll check back in two weeks to see what’s going on in this blog. I will not “debate” you any further though for now. It’s pointless.


  30. kay~ms said

    TBG.. did you see where I put in parenthasis “is that right?”. Did you not understand that? aparently not. I was ASKING if that is what you meant. So, it appears that twisting to you is really just someone trying to find out what you mean. uh.. i’m not the one with the problem here.

    And you still didn’t elaborate and explain what I was asking. I still don’t know what you mean by sin not existing yet us being responsible for our actions. See, your beliefs do not make sense.. and when I try to get some understanding, I’m accused of “twisting”. Clearly you are using this as an EXCUSE so you do not have to explain. You know that your beliefs are faulty. You KNOW IT! And everybody reading knows it too.


  31. kay, you are an idiot.


  32. glenn beck has no credibility, says this other guy with no credibility. lol


  33. kay~ms said

    “Credentials? Try direct experience and personal knowledge. These can’t be shared,”

    Well, that’s pretty convenient for you isn’t it? Many people say the same thing.. only they’re in satanic cults! They are in (obvious) MADE UP “religions” that are based on lies. (like yours). Your “credentials” are NOT valid. They’re not the kind of credentials that a sensible person will accept if you are looking for them to understand your “religion”.

    “I *can* share one of the reasons I reject the fundie viewpoint: it is demonstrably out of touch with reality regarding the FACT of evolution and the age of the earth. ”

    Yet ANOTHER excuse of yours… there are many who do NOT take Genesis literally. You don’t have to take it literally. You can still accept Christianity, you just don’t want to…You’re using it as an EXCUSE.

    You keep referring back to the “flat earth” thing. Even if that is what was said in the Bible, (I still don’t know what passage you are referring to) it is no reason to reject the entire meaning of the Bible… to reject what Jesus did for you. And hey.. what if.. WHAT IF.. there was an error in interpretation for this passage?? By a translator or by YOU!? That “argument” goes both ways you know. But biased people like you only want it to go the way YOU WANT to go.. isn’t that right!? You’ve proven your bias over and over here.

    You want excuses to not believe… people get what they want… there you go. Have fun wallowing in your ignorance and pridefulness… but the fun will end.. I promise you. I mean, you can’t expect Him to be happy with your rejection of Him and what He did for YOU.

    And you still haven’t given me a valid reason for why you’ve chosen to reject what Jesus did for you.. that He died for you.

    No, you’ve elected, like everyone else, to end the debate because I “twist” things… how convenient. You did not prove that I twist things… I have proven that you twist things in order to avoid answering my questions.

    You guys are not fooling anybody!!


  34. kay~ms said

    Oh Princess… you back… I’m soooooo glad.


  35. kay~ms said

    not “you back”… “you’re back”

    I have a comment in moderation.


  36. kay~ms said

    I’m glad you posted that video… it’s a great little crash course on Mormonism. Some day I’m going to write to Glenn and ask him how he can be so intelligent about the truth of what is going on in this country, yet be so easily manipulated by a satanic cult. It baffles me.


  37. dorian said

    even “intelligent” people like beck were given free will. he chooses to belong to the LDS faith like you choose to belong to keller.

    here are the true satanists: http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html


  38. kay~ms said

    Dorian.. you know I don’t “belong” to Bill Keller. I just agree with his direct approach, and acknowledgment of, the truth.

    And that link is to ADMITTED satanists… there are actually people and groups that are deceptive and dishonest and won’t tell you the truth about them. Remember.. this is the real world… that make believe world where nothing bad ever happens is NOT REAL.

    And that is the other thing… how come you all so blindly accept and defend these groups… proclaiming that we should trust them and give them the benefit of the doubt.. yet with Bill, he gets NO benefit of the doubt… do you all see the biasness and hypocrisy??? I do.


  39. Ah..I guess I am going to have to jump in a second here.

    First no one is denying bad things are not happening. The reasons why you agree with Bill is admirable, he does lay down basic Christian doctrine very well. He believes in what he says, that is admirable. What is not is his new approach to getting donations, because currency is not enough obviously. There are a multitude of other ways people with no access to credit cards or a checking account can donate. He can get top of the line equipment (of course he knows this) by buying and building it, or paying someone to build it piece by piece. But he has to go for gold and diamonds? Seriously? I find that practice shady. The fact I am against all forms of Fundamentalist thought (both religious and political.) because I reason that Fundamentalist thought is the only thing between harmony and disharmony. Think about it 8 years of peace under President Clinton. Then in 2001 people hijacked a frackin’ plane with box cutters. (something that will never happen again because the citizens of today wouldn’t be crying and calling family. The citizens would try to stop it en masse.) but in 2001 who was responsible. A FUNDAMENTALIST ORGANIZATION. My thoughts are religious, political, and social Fundamentalist thought starts wars. Without Fundamentalist thought, we wouldn’t be trying to make the human race extinct on a daily basis. Just my thoughts, but we don’t need people saying words that could be interpreted to incite a hateful and/or fearful response to another religion, political way of thought, or social way of thought. Bill was accused of that and obviously the network agreed of the accusation and pulled his show. Violence only begets more Violence. Peace will never be attained through War. This is a proven fact, with historical records from the dawn of civilization. The time that fundamentalist Christians say the Earth began. Even though the multitude of other civilizations speak about a time before different tribes banding together to create a nation. But since the beginning of civilization there have been many wars, all of them bloody, most of them could have been avoided. So if it really is as Bill claims that War is the only road to an everlasting peace, then why have we not attained this peace yet? Because Violence only brings more Violence.

    Violent words, Violent actions, Violent intentions they all end in Violence in some way. Jesus only used violence once, but he did not stay mad at them. He forgave everyone even the narrowminded. He taught that not everyone would receive the truth. He said why, and then said just move on if they will not. Love your enemy as a friend. Love your neighbor is God’s highest commandment. If someone strikes you on one cheek offer up your other. That is how one should live. Those are the teachings of Jesus. And anyone teaching to the countrary or uses words and voice pitch in a way that could incite anger or non peaceful views. Is not a message of Christ at all.


  40. kay~ms said

    fun·da·men·tal·ism (fnd-mntl-zm)
    1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.

    Fundamentalism doesn’t have to include intolerance, as stated above. There is nothing wrong with a person choosing to return to fundamental principles. I agree that it is a problem if people do not tolerate other beliefs or opposing views. Islamic extremists are a good example… their intolerance manifests itself thru their violent actions towards those who do not follow the same beliefs. And also, by inciting others to violence. But, where do you draw the line? I contend that it should be drawn at the point where another’s rights are violated. And how does expressing an opposing view or disagreeing with another’s beliefs violate their rights?? It doesn’t. Going any further is ignorance of that person’s OWN right to disagree. That is LIBERAL ignorance.

    So, can one say that they do not agree with another’s beliefs? They should be able to without being condemned or labeled as intolerant. It is an offense of that person’s rights to consider it intolerant.

    Is it ok to say that another’s religion is false according to their beliefs? Because that is what 99.9% of religions claim.. that theirs is the correct faith which automatically makes others false. Yes, it should be ok.. it is a right to believe however we want and we shouldn’t be labeled as intolerant for what we choose to believe.. just as those who have the beliefs that are being opposed by the “intolerant” person are not labeled as intolerant for their beliefs which do make the SAME claims! That theirs is the correct faith!

    Bill Keller is just more vocal about his disagreement of other faiths. You could say that he is just being honest about his beliefs… where as people of other faiths keep quiet about what they believe. Mormons for example, do believe that anyone who doesn’t adhere to their faith will be condemned. Which is more honest?.. saying it out loud or hiding it? That is one of those things that Mormons won’t tell you when they come to your door btw.

    I agree that Bill does show “a kind” of intolerance… but not the same kind as the Islamic extremists for example. He does not incite, encourage or suggest violence and he does not try to take away another’s right to their beliefs. But he is “emotionally” intolerant of those that have not only turned their backs on God but have set themselves as enemies of God. Those that not only have made the decision to reject and disobey God but also encourage others to do the same. Really, it is not people he is intolerant of.. it’s their actions. Because the people that he seems emotionally intolerant of, he also offers help for if they choose to turn away from their rebellion to God. He states that he loves them and that he wants to help them. That is very different from the intolerance of say a racist group such as the KKK. There is nothing that a black person or a Jewish person could do that would make a racist group change their attitude and love them.

    So, it is not the same thing. Bill is intolerant of actions.. not people. That is really not much different than being intolerant of someone who breaks the law.

    Basically, the question is, what is the definition of intolerance?

    According to The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language:

    in·tol·er·ant (n-tlr-nt)
    Not tolerant, especially:
    a. Unwilling to tolerate differences in opinions, practices, or beliefs, especially religious beliefs

    “Tolerate” according to The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language

    tol·er·ate (tl-rt)
    tr.v. tol·er·at·ed, tol·er·at·ing, tol·er·ates
    1. To allow without prohibiting or opposing; permit.

    The definition of “tolerate” is key here…

    Does Bill “permit” the views of others? Yes he does. He isn’t going out to try and silence others by taking away their right to free speach or beliefs.

    Not, like say the CAIR organization, who didn’t like what Bill was saying and so they got him off the air.

    Now, here is where I have a problem… this is the definition of “intolerant” according to the “Collins English Dictionary”…

    intolerant [ɪnˈtɒlərənt]
    1. lacking respect for practices and beliefs other than one’s own

    The “Collins English Dictionary” is the 2nd definiton offered on the “Free Dictionary by Farlex” website. The “American Heritage Dictionary” is the 1st definition offered.

    Based on this one defintion of the word “intolerant”.. I conclude that the Collins dictionary is the “liberal” dictionary… especially because it is offered as a second option.. the first option is the more sensible and unbiased source… cudos to the Free Dictionary for at least putting the correct unbiased source first. The world is still right.. but who knows for how much longer.

    Anyway.. this definiton of intolerant… “lacking respect for practices and beliefs other than one’s own”… is a liberal crock of ****.

    uh, I do NOT respect the beliefs of say, the church of satan that Dorian so kindly posted the link to.

    And if any of you do respect those beliefs.. well, guess what.. according to YOUR liberal views and your liberal definiton… YOU ARE INTOLERANT.

    I see a problem here… and if any of you don’t…YOU’VE got a problem.

    This is a PERFECT example of corrupt liberal dogma. “lacking respect for practices and beliefs other than one’s own”???

    Like say the belief that it is ok for an adult and child to have a sexual relationship?? Come on now… you have to respect their PRACTICES and beliefs or you are …. INTOLERANT.. according to the Collins English Dictionary.

    Do you all see how liberalism is poisoning society?? It was made clear and evident when our EUROPEAN friend Hors expressed his liberal opinion on the subject of illegal relationships between adults and children…” ‘today’ it is not accepted”.. tomorrow maybe it will be?? And that is what is right??? That was what he implied. “We shouldn’t deprive someone of their ‘natural’ desires”… “that is ‘wrong'”.

    I rest my case.


  41. kay~ms said


    “And if any of you do respect those beliefs.. well, guess what.. according to YOUR liberal views and your liberal definiton… YOU ARE INTOLERANT.”

    That came out wrong… if you do NOT respect those beliefs… according to YOUR liberal views and your liberal definiton… YOU ARE INTOLERANT.”

    And it just goes without saying that if you DO respect those disturbed beliefs, well, you’ve got other problems… that’s a whole other post that I wouldn’t waste my time even addressing.


  42. kay says, “He (bill keller of liveprayer.com gold for souls) does not incite, encourage or suggest violence and he does not try to take away another’s right to their beliefs.”

    “I am also very well aware that Pat Robertson has predicted President Bush will win in a landslide. The fact is, on November 9th, either Pat Robertson or Bill Keller will be wrong. I have clearly stated in the past that the penalty for a false prophet is to be stoned to death. I support that standard and am willing, I wonder if Pat is. Like most who say they hear from God and have been wrong, Pat has always found an excuse why he was wrong and just keeps on going. The fact is, God is NEVER WRONG. One of us is a false prophet! I will make NO EXCUSES.” – bill keller

    what was that you were saying kay? bill keller does not incite, encourage or suggest violence.

    then what kay, do you call that? suggesting a false prophet should be stoned to death sounds exactly like any extremist muslim.

    then kay goes on to say, “Does Bill “permit” the views of others? Yes he does. He isn’t going out to try and silence others by taking away their right to free speach or beliefs.”

    oh really, then what do you call it when keller would hang up the phone on callers that he didn’t agree with? not the prank calls, but serious people with reasonable arguments. well, the real truth behind that is, keller cannot handle a real debate, much like you.



    ***FEBRUARY FINANCIAL UPDATE: As we head into the last week of February, we still need to bring in $33,000 to cover budget for the month. Additionally, we still need to raise $80,000 to cover the shortfalls we accumulated during 2009. As we have been sharing, we also need $10,000 quickly to replace outdated equipment (details below) that keeps Liveprayer online available to the world 24/7/365. That is $123,000 over the next 7 days. – bill keller



  43. kay has a financial investment in bill keller, if he fails, then she don’t get a paycheck.


  44. dorian said

    what’s keller’s thing against pat robertson? aren’t they in the same evangelical God-is-love camp? a religious war between the same christian sect? how unchristianlike.


  45. kay~ms said

    oh brother… technicalities again… you’ve missed the point P. Bill isn’t proposing violence against those who have opposing views…( the REAL definition of intolerance ). Your example is not about opposing views, it’s about false prophecies… it has nothing to do with intolerance.
    And I’ve said myself that I didn’t like when he would hang up on people with legitimate points/ arguments. But that is not taking away their rights. It’s excersising his right because it is his show. They can still go out and speak anyhow, anywhere they want to. If he were to try and make it illegal for them to do that or harm then physically so they couldn’t do that then that is taking away their rights.

    Really, the Cair situation is the same thing… they didn’t violate Bill’s rights. But in comparison, Bill doesn’t go out of his way to silence the Mormon tv shows or silence Islamic groups. NOt saying that he wouldn’t shut them down if he could though.. I guess my example was not a good one… that Cair tried to silence him.

    The point is intolerance.. what is the definition? I contend that it is when someone violates another’s rights and that it SHOULD NOT be defined simply as someone just disagreeing with another’s beliefs as the liberal minded ignorantly insist that it is.

    And the further point being that fundamentalism is not the “poison” that you all contend that it is… it’s INTOLERANCE that is the poison.. and I’m talking about the TRUE definition of intolerance, not the warped liberal definition.

    Respecting a person’s RIGHT to believe what they want is tolerance. Insisting that, as the Collins dictionary defines it, we should respect their BELIEFS is warped liberal dogma (garbage).


  46. dorian said

    “Respecting a person’s RIGHT to believe what they want is tolerance. Insisting that, as the Collins dictionary defines it, we should respect their BELIEFS is warped liberal dogma (garbage).”

    so tell us kay dearest, do you respect and tolerate everybody else’s right to their beliefs? me thinks not, from the many ways you say “warped liberal dogma (garbage) ” or “liberal poison”. people get tired of of all that. nobody’s gonna want to play with you anymore.


  47. kay, twisting the crap in her mouth, again.
    kay you said bill “does not incite, encourage or suggest violence”

    i proved you to be a liar, again.

    dorian is right. you don’t tolerate another person’s right to believe what they want, neither does your lord felon keller.

    CAIR “did not” try to silence keller. they complained to the network, as is their rights as american citizens.
    and by the way, the station “did not” take away keller’s program, HE QUIT. that is another bill keller lie.

    your lips are firmly attached to kellers rectum, much like a remora on a shark.


  48. Enkill_Eridos said


    Most Fundamentalist Christians teach that homosexuals can never be considered Christians even if they accept Christ. (This by the way is one of many Fundamentalist Teachings that is no where in the New Testament.)

    Most Fundamentalist Christians believe that the religious institution of marriage is the exact same as the Legal one (Also false. The legal institution of marriage and the religious one is very different.)

    A lot of Fundamentalist Christians believe that Separation of Church and State is wrong and immoral. (They are usually the ones that ignore certain historical facts, like how we actually came to North America in the first place. Our ancestors were basically exiled because they would not convert to the same religion their leader was. So there is a very valid reason why the Separation of Church and State should be kept, because if it is not. Not only will there be revolution, Civil Rights freedoms would also be taken away. Paragraph 175 is an excellent example of how religion has no place in the government of a free nation.)

    Bill is very intolerant of everyone who does not think exactly the same way. His show was booted off the air because he did say something that would incite violence against Christians and Muslims.

    Actually most Fundamentalists are intolerant. Not just the Christian Fundamentalists either. The Political Fundamentalists are even worse, the Patriot Act is a fine example of what a Political Fundamentalist wants.

    yay, for Liberal Garbage…If you don’t like it, or if you continue lessen other peoples sacrifice for your freedoms then go to a Christian Theocracy. Because people die for “Liberal Garbage.” You know like the Bill of Rights..to kay the whole Constitution is Liberal Garbage.

    Of course if she called it Progressive Poison or Progressive Garbage then it would not be as unpatriotic as she usually sounds. Live Free or Die..That is the Liberal Poison and Garbage that started this country. The belief that a nation could exist without a citizen to be afraid of persecution is this Liberal Garbage and Poison you keep talking about. The belief that other nationalities and other religions can coexist and actually benefit a nation is the Liberal Garbage you keep speaking of. I’ve been to a few countries that do not spread the Liberal Garbage as Kay puts it. Iran, Jordan, Greece and Saudi Arabia. There is no tolerance there, the government can arrest you if you speak negatively against that nations accepted religion. And everything in some old book that was written around the dawn of civilization is law. They are not free countries like ours is.

    Of course, tolerance is not Garbage. Because I respect Kay’s beliefs, even though I do not share hers I respect them. If it was impossible to respect someone else’s beliefs without believing the same Kay would not be able to write, or post a comment on this blog. But because I respect the men and women who have died for the ideals in the Constitution, and because I believe in that document as a good solid ground for a government not religious doctrine. I respect the men and women that are courageous enough to want to put their lives on the line for a nation that is completely free.

    You can be tolerant and not agree. You can debate and not see eye to eye and yet still respect a person for not backing down. Respect for someone else’s beliefs, lifestyle and creed is not the same as thinking it is morally correct. Repsecting someone else’s right to believe a different way than you, does not mean to agree. But it does mean you listen when they try to explain it.

    Kay you are the opposite of Tolerant…Even though it is the complete polar opposite of my beliefs and sometimes I really don’t like you because you make my brain hurt with confusing half truths. I still respect you for having a different opinion and exercising your freedoms. Even if you don’t believe in the documents that give you those freedoms.

    Actually Princess you are wrong..He did quit but not because he wanted to. They put his show on at the same time infomercials are on, and even labeled it as an infomercial. (I thought that was funny..As I think all televangelists should be considered as infomercials.) Of course the cause was that Cair complained because he said things that could be construed as hate comments (The tone of voice and verbage is a great indicator of this. I watched the clip listened to it. Seriously you hear the same vocal patterns and verbage a Radical Cleric says to incite suicide bombings.) I think Bill knew this because verbage and vocal tones and pitches are addressed in seminary. They teach you in seminary how to use your voice to incite fear in a listener, or to make the listener think they can trust you. He had to quit because of what the network did. I read the reports and watched that particular episode on Youtube. And honestly if the Conservatives can complain because of an animated woman wearing a bikini(Which is ridiculous because I grew up in a more moderate household but very Christian. Just not Fundamentalist Christian. Our Church had beach parties..and nothing was wrong with a woman wearing a two piece there in front of little children.) than everyone else can complain because someone uses words and vocal patterns that are known to incite violence.

    Sorry, to burst your bubble P, but Bill was basically forced to quit. Since he made little in donations the moment his show went from a religious talk show, to an infomercial. That’s actually what happened. The story was in The Tampa Tribune. (I don’t trust the St. Pete Times because they like to spread false information, since they spread false information I don’t see the St. Pete Times as a valid source for news material.)


  49. kay~ms said

    See.. you are STILL not getting it… I respect your RIGHT to believe what you want… as an example.. I would NOT want the government forcing anyone to be Christian. “warped liberal dogma” is me explaining that I do NOT respect your beliefs… again… I respect your RIGHT to believe that though.

    Dorian… do you RESPECT the beliefs of say the church of satan or for example, I saw on 20/20 awhile back a story of this “religious” organization that believed in sleeping with children.. even their own… that is was ok and encouraged. One of those boys whose mother was the leader slept with him when he was little. As an adult, he videotaped his confession of what he was about to do.. kill his mother and then kill himself… because he just couldn’t live with it any longer.. he never got to his mother but he did kill another person who had molested him and then he did kill himself.

    Do you RESPECT this groups beliefs?? You will probably say “of course not” and “that’s not intolerance.. that group is crazy”… So, where do you draw the line of when it’s considered not “crazy” or wrong? Where YOU think a religious or some other group is “ok”? Where liberals believe a group is “ok”? You belief that the Mormon faith is “ok”… I strongly disagree.. I consider it a cult… as does Billy Graham and most other (true) Christians. But you are trying to tell us that we are intolerant because we believe they are a cult. The problem that I’m trying to convey here, with liberal beliefs, SHOULD be clear but I’m not going to hold my breath.

    The irony is that the lack of respect and lack of tolerance is from people who believe as you do… that the other side is being intolerant for disagreeing… you have no respect of another’s RIGHT to disagree. And Obama’s adminisration and the agressive liberal agenda IS trying to take away anothers right to disagree… by making it illegal to speak out about what the Bible says.. that homosexuality is wrong and that abortions are wrong.. that it IS murder. They want to categorize it as a hate crime to speak out against these things as wrong in God’s eyes. And that IS the true definition of intolerance…trying to FORCE someone to align with their views (or not be allowed to speak)… not respecting another’s RIGHT to disagree. That’s true irony.. that’s “reverse ignorance”.

    And you think I don’t get tired?? I get tired of you all not getting it. Of course no one wants to “play” with me… no one likes getting proved wrong. That is why Hors, TBG, 1minion, and everyone else isn’t here.. you all are liberals and I have proved you all wrong. And I certainly do understand that that isn’t fun.. so don’t let me stop you all from your small talk about ice cream and such.. I won’t interfere. I’ll just be here for anyone who wants to have a serious debate about the flaws of the liberal minded…or in other words… non Christians.


  50. kay~ms said

    comment 49 was to Dorian.


  51. Enkill_Eridos said

    Oh and Intolerance is the exact opposite of being tolerant.

    An Intolerant person isn’t the same as someone who does not share the exact same opinion as you. An Intolerant person is the kind of person that wouldn’t lose any sleep at night if unfortunate occurrences happened to the kind of people that person doesn’t agree with.

    An Intolerant person would like for you to believe that tolerance is only for those that think this one way.

    An intolerant person would go to any lengths to “prove” their own beliefs and way of thinking, mainly because of insecurities that person may have. Especially if you prove that person wrong with actual verifiable information.

    To me that is intolerance. Intolerance is the thing that is killing fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters on a global scale. Intolerance is the thing that causes wars. Intolerance and tolerance are both outdated concepts and are terms that no longer apply to our more modern society. I believe that the more dated terms would be Respect and Disrespect.

    Let me go off on a tangent about Respect and Disrespect.

    Respect is acknowledging that person will not change his or her belief system, because of the words of one person. Respect is not pushing the issue, and moving on. Respect is fully answering someone’s questions about a belief, and shedding light on points that person is struggling with. Respect is when you give this information and a person still doesn’t change, and you don’t do anything about it. Respect is not taking the bait to fight insignificant ideas with another person.

    Disrespect is continuously pushing a point towards one person trying to change his or her belief system. Disrespect is the badgering of other people because they do not share your exact point of view. Disrespect is ganging up on someone because their point of view is a polar opposite. (This kind of trying to put your point across is just as wrong as the things the person that you are trying to teach a lesson to is doing.) Disrespect is trying to get everyone to conform to your views.

    So let’s try not to be Disrespectful, and when we see a conversation go from a Respectful conversation to a Disrespectful argument let’s put a stop to it and move to another one. Sometimes ignoring the problem will make it go away.






  53. kay~ms said

    tax form…you’re still not getting it either… still… I couldn’t care less if you prove me “wrong” on a technicality.. I care about the context and point. you are so silly.

    And I acknowledged that Cair didn’t violate Bill’s rights… I had said earlier that they were violating his rights… I was wrong about that.. they did it “legally”.

    And I know that he chose to leave the show because they said he couldn’t do it live anymore. They didn’t force him to leave. I don’t think Bill or I have claimed otherwise. but if he did by chance (or me) say something that “technically” could imply otherwise.. I’m positive you’ll find it just so you can call us lairs again…”liar liar pants on fire”… Bill has made it clear that he chose to leave the station because they changed the conditions.


  54. Enkill_Eridos said

    Kay you don’t prove anyone wrong. Mainly because you are rarely right. The Obama administration has nothing to do with what’s going on in this country. Mainly because the Obama administration is not really running the government. Mainly because a Presidential administration is not supposed to. The Presidents job is to be a military leader, as well as a diplomat. The President is nothing more than a figurehead the citizens are supposed to look up to. The President is supposed to make sure that the Constitution is followed and that the House and Congress are doing their jobs.

    The problem with the government is in Congress and the House. The Bush Administration cheated the system and look what has happened. From the Patriot Act to the Bail out system. Things written and delivered an hour or two before those things were to be voted upon. The Bush Administration manipulated the house and senate with those kinds of tactics. Oh no a majority of Congress is what? Conservative Christian Republicans? During both terms of the administration responsible for the economic mess we are in. Are they a majority? Yes..So it MUST be Obama’s fault that Congress and the Senate is working very slowly since no one can come to a clear yay or nay consensus. even though the Veto power of the President can by law be overturned by both the House, Congress, and the voters of this country.

    Just a question Kay. What is a true Christian exactly? Because the bible says all you have to do is believe that Jesus Christ is the messiah and saved you from sin so you can goto heaven when you die. Are you saying there is more to it than that? Because there really isn’t. The Bible was quite clear that you believe in Jesus you goto heaven. Living like Christ did, is something every Christian should aspire to. That is also in the Bible.

    Or is a true Christian only those that uphold the rigid Fundamentalist Christian view?

    Kay you are still wrong…The network did force Bill off the air. I even said how they did it. He chose to leave it gracefully because his show wan’t making enough money to actually keep his ministry alive. So he focused only on his website. Because his ministry got more money off the donations on the website than his show which at that time was labeled as an informercial (Paid Programming.) and was marketed as an informercial. So he was forced to quit. Did Cair violate Bill’s rights. Not really, since all the Parents against vulgar programming organizations got together and say well we rely on TV to do our parenting for us. So the things they did made the first amendment when it comes to TV and Radio, only applicable to the news networks obviously. So don’t blame CAIR..Blame the Conservative Christian organizations trying to make tv “right for kids.” Even though it is the parents job to make sure their kids don’t watch the shows they think inappropriate. It’s not an organizations job to do this. So those new guidelines used pushed by these organizations is what caused the network to be able to terminate Bill’s contract and make up a new one. One that did not benefit Bill in anyway.


  55. kay~ms said

    E-E said: “Of course, tolerance is not Garbage. Because I respect Kay’s beliefs, even though I do not share hers I respect them. If it was impossible to respect someone else’s beliefs without believing the same Kay would not be able to write, or post a comment on this blog.”

    ok.. here is the definiton of “respect”.

    re·spect (r-spkt)
    tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects
    1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.

    es·teem (-stm)
    1. Favorable regard.


    So, you’re saying E-E that I should have “favorable regard” for these groups that I strongly disagree with.. those mentioned earlier?

    And how can you have “favorable regard” for someone else’s views that YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH??


  56. dorian said

    # 49 is another kay classic. see how she twists words and meaning.

    she’s the model of intolerance and continues to show this time and time again. thank you adkob for providing the show venue.


  57. kay~ms said

    It’s pretty clear now that “twisting” is your only defense and that of others here also… how can you possibly think you are fooling anyone??

    If it’s not “twisting” for the liberals.. it’s “racist”. Nice and simple and easy.


  58. dorian said

    slightly dyslexic, imo, among other things…i’m sure she has her saving graces.


  59. kay~ms said

    See.. I’m sooo glad I didn’t hold my breath!!


  60. kay~ms said

    ok.. now here’s where I ask you, Dorian, to elaborate and explain where I twisted things in comment 49… and where you will now come up with some short but “sweet” excuse for not doing so.


  61. dorian said

    kay, forgive everyone already. is there anyone you like other than bill in this world? take a break from the adkob liberals. are you beginning to see this as a place you hate to be in? i think it’s time for some holy water or some prayers. whatever will work to cast out the foul energy. clear the air!


  62. Enkill_Eridos said

    I have favorable regard towards you, because you believe the way you do and let no one shake your beliefs. I have favorable regard towards everyone on this blog, because it is your right to express yourself. Since this is a blog that is all about First Amendment rights, and I believe fully in the Constitution of the United States. That I respect your belief and I respect you for voicing your belief. Just because it is different from mine doesn’t mean I can’t respect it.

    It is the foundation of what this country is based on, and something I believe every person should try to uphold. I understand, however not everyone sees it this way. I found out a long time ago, not to care about how everyone else sees something. What matters to an individual is how they see it.

    Just because I respect you, your beliefs, and your right to hold them. Does not mean I am not going to exercise my First Amendment right.


  63. Enkill_Eridos said

    Dorian, I do hate to say this..but take a deep breath and close your eyes. Now let it out and with your eyes closed keep taking deep breaths and letting it out..doing that now good. Imagine all of your negativity is flowing out of you every time you let out your breaths. Just focus on your breathing and find your calm…That is a good way to clear the air of negativity. Be the peaceful calm this place should be..


  64. Enkill_Eridos said

    Okay, I finally actually listened to this Olberman clip..and he does bring some very interesting points that I would have to agree with. Especially since he is right about this.

    Good ol Canadians


  65. oh god, who did this womans lips? that is the worst lip-liner i have ever seen.

    e_e and the rest of you guys. i have to take a breather.
    i know, kay is going to say that i bolted because i can’t handle the truth.

    not true, girls just want to have fun.

    hey kay, i’ll make a deal with you,
    if you get those tax forms for me,
    i’ll dedicate my life to jesus.



  66. kay~ms said

    ok… you first. And I promise I will do my best to hold up my end of the bargain.

    Dorian, are you going to dodge my questions yet again?

    My questions were:

    Do you respect (tolerate) those groups I referred to earlier? The satanic cult and the group that promotes sex with children?

    And to be clear… here are the definitions again…according to the “liberal” Collins Dictionary.

    respect [rɪˈspɛkt]
    1. an attitude of deference, admiration, or esteem; regard

    tolerate [ˈtɒləˌreɪt]
    vb (tr)
    1. to treat with indulgence, liberality, or forbearance

    And, could you please show me how I “twisted” things in comment #49?


  67. kay~ms said

    EE, you said: “Just a question Kay. What is a true Christian exactly? Because the bible says all you have to do is believe that Jesus Christ is the messiah and saved you from sin so you can goto heaven when you die. Are you saying there is more to it than that? Because there really isn’t. The Bible was quite clear that you believe in Jesus you goto heaven. Living like Christ did, is something every Christian should aspire to. That is also in the Bible. ”

    Yes, I agree with you.. but it is critical to believe in the TRUE Jesus.. not a made up Jesus who is supposedly the brother of lucifer for example..as the Mormons believe.

    And again… how can you have “favorable regard” (respect) for my beliefs when you also view them as intolerant?


  68. Enkill_Eridos said

    This is the thing, because I believe in something much greater than my own petty beliefs. That much greater belief says all human beings have the right to pursue any religion they wish, without fear of persecution. I believe in a free nation, where we are not a nation classified by a religion, but a belief that no one can make another person believe a certain way. This belief overrides any other belief. This belief gives me the wish to come to a factual understanding by participating and studying a belief before coming to a definitive conclusion. I think your mindset is intolerant, but not your beliefs. I believe in the Jesus of the Gospels, I have to admit that I don’t actually know that much about LDS theology, except they have the book of Mormon translated by Joseph Smith. From a set of solid gold tablets that he could not later produce for the courts. Nor could he reproduce the device he used to translate it. So I just put LDS in the same category as Catholicism, Jehova’s Witnesses (I actually know a bit of their theology, and if it wasn’t based on a crap translation of the Roman Catholic Latin bible I would say it may be plausible. But since the translation is one done from the altered Latin Bible, and not actually taken from Hebrew and Greek texts. Same Category as LDS and Catholicism.) Organized Christianity. There are many other churches that belong to that group, but not all of Christianity actually falls into that category. Also not all Fundamentalist Ministries fall into that category either. There are some, but most are lost on the actual message God was trying to tell through Jesus. And of course there is the Churches that get the message, preach the message. And doesn’t spend too much time on the opinions of “Paul the Apostle” (Who Christian Historians not a part of Organized Christianity are starting to actually question whether the documents from 50 AD are the same writings of the actual Paul the Apostle.)


  69. Enkill_Eridos said

    Just because I do not 100% agree with your beliefs does not mean that I shouldn’t respect them, or your right an American to express and be public about them. I don’t have to respect them, but I do. It is how I was raised, not everyone will share the same exact belief as you. And you don’t have to like, understand, or even believe the same way to respect that person’s beliefs and the person’s conviction. I mean there is nothing in the Bible that says I should hate anything that is different from my own beliefs. The Bible says To love thy Neighbor. And love thy enemy as if he or she was a friend.


  70. no kay, the deal is, you get the tax forms, i get saved. otherwise the deal is off and you have to spend heaven in eternity without me there to point out your halo is tarnished and your wings are dusty.
    a real christian would get those tax forms and prove there is nothing to hide.


  71. kay~ms said

    EE, did you read / understand the definitions of “respect” and “tolerance”? I have stated here (a few comments up) that I ALSO believe in a person’s right to their beliefs… that is what I respect… THEIR RIGHT to believe what they want. But to respect their actual beliefs is a COMPLETELY different thing. I’ve proven that here with examples… do you RESPECT the actual beliefs of a group that practices things that you think are wrong??? Please try and understand my point.

    You are perfectly exemplifiying the erroneous views of liberalism… the complete ignorance of the fact that they do not understand the fundamental differences of a person’s right to their beliefs and ALSO a person’s right to disagree with another’s beliefs.

    It is the liberal minded who do not get and understand that they are the ones who are intolerant and lack respect for another’s rights.. the RIGHT to disagree. And that they should not label others as intolerant for having different views.

    I have not called anyone intolerant for disagreeing with Christian beliefs… for believing in their own faith instead.. I would never call them intolerant for believing that my beliefs are false… but that is exactly what liberal theology (you all) accuse me of. It’s blatantly ignorant and hypocritical.

    And, I’m going to say it.. the “r” word… it’s RETARDED that I even have to explain all of this… OVER AND OVER.


  72. kay~ms said

    Princess, did you even ask Bill for his tax forms? Maybe you need to make a donation in order to qualify to receive a copy. Surely you have some unused gold you can donate.

    I’ll ask for his tax forms if you do one of two things…. become a real Christian or get those pictures…

    oh Dorian…?? Come on you liberals… you guys are not even putting up a fight. This is just too easy. Dorian.. ask your friend again to come on here… in the mean time, I’m going to go over on the Huffington post and try to start a debate with Alec Baldwin.


  73. Enkill_Eridos said

    I understand the right to disagree. But I don’t see the problem in respecting another persons beliefs, even if I believe that they are wrong. Mainly because I actually accept my view could be wrong. I will not actually slander another persons beliefs by telling some kind of propaganda. I respect a persons belief by trying to understand it. Respecting a belief and believing in it is two very different things. Please try to see where I am coming from. I do not see myself as qualified to actually do anything, but give my opinion on something. It is not my place to judge anything, but the obvious lies.


  74. Enkill_Eridos said

    I mean there is no religious war going on..that is a Dark Ages concept and mentality that we as civilized people in Modern times (It’s very different from the Dark Ages, in way of thought not just technology.) Maybe you need to catch up a bit..But the Church never held any sort of political power in this nation in any way. There is no actual reason for us not to be able to Coexist…

    Oh wait I there is an actual reason for this. The people who do not believe in the United States of America. The people that believe that a nation of people not controlled by a central religion is possible (Even though it has been going on for over 230 years.) There are people who want people to believe that destroying the Constitution in favor of a Christian Run United States of America is American. Which it is not.

    I don’t respect all beliefs..There is one belief that I cannot stand. And there is one belief that is an embarrassment that it is even spoken by an American Citizen. There is one belief I will never accept as a valid belief to be respected. And that is the United States should be a nation controlled by Christianity.
    Look at history, that just doesn’t work. Our founding fathers saw this, and spoke against it. (Which makes me question Bill Keller..This probably is the fundamental reason why I just do not like him at all.) And if the Separation of Church and State was ever abolished, if this great country ever became a theocracy in my life time..Well you would all know me as a terrorist from that moment on. Because I will not stand for the deaths of men and women to go in vain. I will not stand for the 18 year old dieing for a free nation, when it ceases to be free. My belief regarding the belief I just described is..It is a traitorous way of thought and if you want a government that is a Christian Theocracy move to a country that is. Because it will never happen in America.


  75. dorian said

    well let’s put it this way…this country sure wasn’t founded by men in robes but most of them wore aprons. not tea aprons but these aprons:


  76. kay, why don’t you get the tax forms. i’ve already emailed bill keller of liveprayer and asked for them. he says i have to drive to st pete to get them. i’m not wasting my gas to drive all the way to the slummiest part of st pete and go look at all the ugly nasty people that work there. i’m talking about susan and cryptkeeper carl.

    oh, i know why you won’t get them. it’s because you know just as well as any of us here that he is a fraud. and you are a fraud. these things should be public record. keller is just like benny hinn and creflo dollar and all those other thieves. they won’t disclose their finances either.

    oh well, guess i won’t get saved because you won’t even bother to do such a little thing as get me liveprayer’s tax forms.

    kay makes baby jesus sad.


  77. Enkill_Eridos said

    Why don’t you ask the IRS for the tax forms on Bill Keller Ministries by citing the freedom of information act. Since it is a public not-for profit organization the IRS can send you a copy.


  78. kay~ms said

    EE said: “But I don’t see the problem in respecting another persons beliefs, even if I believe that they are wrong. Mainly because I actually accept my view could be wrong.”

    I do understand what you are trying to say… that we should respect others and that would include respecting their beliefs. I can relate to that. But it is very interesting that neither you nor Dorian have answered (are avoiding) my direct question about whether you respect the beliefs of the two groups that I described earlier.

    Not everyone is deserving of respect. That is something that liberal dogma seems to not want to acknowledge. Judgement IS required which is another liberal “no no”. It is not practical, sensible or wise to live by the creed of never judging and always respecting everyone’s beliefs. But that is exactly what you (liberals) are espousing. It is extremely faulty liberal theology.

    And that neither of you want to address this point proves that you know that this theology is faulty.

    People are not entitled to “unconditional” respect… that is ludicrous. (please refer again to the definition of “respect” if you disagree). And certainly there are beliefs that are NOT deserving of respect. While I do NOT respect Mormon beliefs / theology… I DO respect the way they live their lives.. putting “God” first.. even though their “god” is not the God of the Bible. I admire their dedication… I respect many things about Mormons… but I do NOT respect their beliefs.. I believe they are lies and very harmful to people who follow this “religion”. You and other liberals here call me intolerant for taking this stance… and I say that it is you all who are the intolerant ones for labeling me as such.

    And I’ve PROVEN here that I am right on this point. Some acknowledgement would be nice… and beneficial to you yourselves to acknowledge this. But, again, I won’t hold my breath for that either.


  79. dorian said

    ” And I’ve PROVEN here that I am right on this point. …”

    and who was the judge of that? your ego alone. because no else else is saying they are right and you are wrong, are they?

    “Some acknowledgement would be nice… and beneficial to you yourselves to acknowledge this.” maybe if i lie and say “you’re right, kay”, will you bake me a cake?

    i believe that every living thing is deserving of respect. i may not believe in the satanist creed but i respect their right to their beliefs. your satanist neighbor is just like you, a living breathing human being. would you think twice about pulling someone back away from a speeding car if he just told you he believed in satan or would you let him get hit? i think your gut reaction would be to save his life anyway. because we all have that built-in respect for life.

    tolerance is inherently an act of respect. “conditional” respect is the same as “conditional” love. it has nothing to do about the other person, it’s really all about your ego.
    telling everyone you’re right, again and again, is really only showing that you are the one who feels you have to prove something. if everyone is ignoring your challenges to combat, it’s because they’re bored and stopped reading you already. try a different approach.


  80. kay~ms said

    ““conditional” respect is the same as “conditional” love. ”

    I disagree… I can love someone as a fellow human being… but I don’t have to respect them if I don’t agree with their choices and their behaviour.

    Let me AGAIN, post the definition of “respect” so you can see how you and E-E have been brainwashed by liberal society into accepting liberal definitons of words.. not the ACTUAL definitions.

    re·spect (r-spkt)
    tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects
    1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.

    And I never said I didn’t respect another’s rights, I’ve said over and over now that I DO respect another’s rights… and I never said I don’t respect another person AS a human being “living and breathing” as me. But unconditional respect is a load of liberal crap. I can respect the life of another.. respect that they are human with feelings but to say that it is wrong to not respect them while they are living lives that are destructive and harmful to others is b.s.

    Let’s put it this way…. do you RESPECT Bill Keller??? I think I can safely say that you do not. I would say that you respect him as a fellow human being but I really dont’ think you believe he is worthy of respect based on how he conducts his life… I would fall out of my chair if you said otherwise. And of course, I disagree… my example would be someone who, again, is destructive and harmful to others.. they will get no respect from me. If you want to call me intolerant.. that is your right but I think that makes you intolerant. And note that I am not calling you intolerant for disagreeing with Bill… I am calling you intolerant because you are intolerant of my right to disagree with your (the liberal) view.

    Liberals seem to love to throw around that word whenever anyone disagrees with their corrupt liberal views. And this tactic brainwashes society into following it’s dogma… which is the goal.

    And to clerify… I am saying that I am right because you are not giving any arguments to my points, so without any arguments to the contrary… it IS the logical conclusion, that..unfortunately, I DO have to point out myself because you all NEVER DO..even though it is the RIGHT THING TO DO when you have no arguments

    … it is really very simple… if you do not agree with me, explain why.. but instead you just call me egotistical and STILL not give any counter points… it just doesn’t work that way Dorian.

    ” i may not believe in the satanist creed but i respect their right to their beliefs. ”

    That is EXACLTY what I’ve have been saying!! So how is it that I am intolerant???

    You guys just do not make any sense.

    Please tell me again.. what am I wrong about??? And please refer to the actual definitons of the words before you use them again to make your accusations.

    So, I guess, I’m “not intolerant” for not believing in the satanist creed.. because you all do not agree with it either.. so that’s “ok”. .. BUT I AM “intolerant” for disagreeing with Mormon beliefs because you all don’t see a problem with them. When did you all (liberals) get to decide which group is ok and which isn’t????

    bottom line to all liberals here… please stop those disgusting and cheap liberal tactics of throwing around words like intolerant and racist without the ability to back them up. It is not only dishonest… it is DISRESPECTFUL!!

    Yes… I AM right. Why does it bother you all so much when I make that claim?? Because it’s YOUR egos that are the problem.. not mine. I’m the one who is stating the truth.. don’t agree? Then prove otherwise.. THAT is the way it works. Accusations of character flaws just doesn’t cut it. Just watch some reruns of law and order or Perry Mason and you’ll see what I mean.

    And people are ignoring my challenges to debate because it’s no fun if you know you can’t win.


  81. dorian said

    ahahahah – just as expected. anyways, kay, i don’t think anyone will be wasting time with the neener-neeners. keep declaring yourself a winner if it makes you feel good. you deserve a little joy however you get it. luv ya anyway. d


  82. Well..I have directly answered your questions. If that is not enough for you let me put it in a very simple and clear explanation on how I can respect someone’s belief even if it is something I personally do not believe in.

    Because unlike most conservatives, I love this country, the ideals this country was founded on. I believe wholeheartedly in the protections of this countries most principal document. The Constitution of the United States. If I was given a chance to save that one original document or thousands of Bibles from a Conservative document burning. I would do everything in my power to save that document. My creed is Live Free or Die. I believe that it is every human beings right to live in a place where a fundamental Muslim, a Hebrew, and a Fundamentalist Christian can have a peaceful dialog on religion. Without either of those parties worried about being arrested for being one of those religions.

    I respect other peoples religions, and I will tell you how. By understanding the religion, trying to sift the BS from the Fact. I respect other religions and feel that it is not my place to judge a religion. I believe it is an act of Treason to disrespect anothers religion by defacing and destroying places of worship. To harass someone by burning holy documents and books. By trying to force them into my own set of beliefs. I respect another religion by your definition, by not spreading lies about a particular religion.

    Criticizing a religious organization, by saying a certain goal or statement should be considered as treason. Is not disrespect.

    You can say you win all you want that doesn’t make it true. Because I can seriously say I win..Because I have clearly outlined for you my thoughts on this matter. I love my country and the ideals it was based on. I guess you wouldn’t really understand, I know Bill doesn’t understand these things. I am no traitor, so I respect other religions, and treat them as my own. Because when it comes down to it at times when it really matters Black, White, Hispanic, Catholic, Mormon, Protestant, Muslim, Jew, Wiccan, and any others are Americans. Because not just Christians believe in this country to the point that they will give their lives. People of all faiths, creeds, and color of skin has died for our freedoms. The true Liberals are not these progressive thinkers that are not conservatives, but those that believe in the freedoms this free nation provides all of those citizens. So yes I respect almost every belief, even those that I do not completely agree with. There are traitorous beliefs that the constitution protects, those I must respect to the point that they try to give me a watchtower or tell me that flying my flag is against God. I respect them to the point of Hello. Then I say not interested and slam the door in their face. There are just some beliefs I will never respect.

    Respecting someones belief and respecting a person are also two different things.


  83. kay~ms said

    oh brother… you guys are hopeless…I give up. I’m so tired of asking questions that never get answered… I’m tired of making valid points that never get acknowledged..and it’s clear that proving myself right (right here in black and white) makes no difference what so ever.

    I think I’m finally coming to the sad realization that Reverse Ignorance is incurable. But hopefully one day they will invent a pill for it… otherwise, this country is in big trouble.


  84. Enkill_Eridos said

    kay I have told you over and over again..I will try to clarify it using smaller less political words…

    I don’t believe in disrespecting someone’s belief solely because it is against the oath that I have taken. (I believe that every oath I have ever taken is something I must follow for life. I don’t expect you to understand why the ideals in the Constitution are just as important to me and my ethical code of conduct, as my faith in God is.) I don’t think it is morally right to judge someone solely on their beliefs. I don’t talk to people about Jesus day in and day out. I’ll do it once, if they don’t want to talk about it again that’s fine. If they do that’s fine too. The point is every belief should be respected. To a point where you actually learn about a faith from people of that faith. Not from someone who doesn’t know a thing about a faith other than wrongful propaganda.

    The only belief I do not have any respect for is Jehovah’s Witnesses. But this is because they call the Flag and the Pledge of Allegiance Idolatry. (When really it is not. The One Nation Under God part was added much later, and had a different meaning until the 1950’s when the Fundamentalist movement became stronger.) They also teach about how protecting the freedoms of this country is against God. So naturally with my Patriotic way of thinking I feel that this belief deserves no respect. Add in the New World Translations is not recognized as a valid translation, even by the progressive thinking citizens (you know the ones that Kay calls Liberals even though they are not. But of course she doesn’t think a Conservative Liberal can exist when they can.)


  85. Enkill_Eridos said

    And I do respect Bill Keller as a person. Not so much as a pastor..but that’s because some of his practices I would consider shady if he had a brick and mortar church…I would respect his ministry more if he actually did something positive in the community. I haven’t really seen anything he has done but “bring people to Christ.” Which is good and all, but I don’t see him making many public actions that bring glory to God. As all of his public actions should. (It is part of the oath of Ordination..well the one I had to take. I assume it is the same for every Christian pastor or minister) Of course I have a differing opinion that stems from my differing life experiences. So that plays a factor in it. I respect most of his beliefs as well. The ones I don’t respect is his disrespect for the foundation of our nation, and that it is morally alright to beg for Gold BEFORE each devotional…If his ministry fails it is God’s Will, If it doesn’t then it is not. I am not rooting for him to fail, I just wish he would change some of his practices.


  86. Enkill_Eridos said

    Also Kay, we are not ignoring your challenges to a debate. I am debating, just not the way you want. I don’t think you are right, and I have said the same thing over and over again. I just used different words. What more do you want to say. I have a reverence for all religions, because I don’t believe that any of these so-called absolute truths. Why? Because for there to be an absolute truth, there would have to be one. But many people say their religion and their way of thinking is the only right way. That leads to disagreements which leads to wars. (Palestine and Israel, two huge examples of how I am right.) It really boils down to this. I respect every religion because of two reasons: The Constitution says that it must be so. And the Bible says it must be so. I hope that is clear enough for you.

    You ask how can I, I have said it over and over again. You probably will not answer this question, because you hardly ever answer any of my questions. And unless I am the only person “debating” with you, you ignore a good majority of my comments.

    My question is this:

    Why don’t you feel that respect and love go hand in hand?

    And why do you ignore God’s most sacred commandment Love thy Neighbor?


  87. kay~ms said

    EE asked:

    Why don’t you feel that respect and love go hand in hand?

    And why do you ignore God’s most sacred commandment Love thy Neighbor?

    here again is the definiton of respect…
    re·spect (r-spkt)
    tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects
    1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.

    And here is the definition of “esteem”…

    es·teem (-stm)
    tr.v. es·teemed, es·teem·ing, es·teems
    1. To regard with respect; prize. See Synonyms at appreciate.

    This kind of creates a dilema doesn’t it? when the definitons are just exchanging words… ugh…

    ok.. here is the definiton of “prize”..

    tr.v. prized, priz·ing, priz·es
    1. To value highly; esteem or treasure. See Synonyms at appreciate.

    ok… “treasure” … I do NOT “treasure” views that I do not agree with… I do not “appreciate” views that I do not agree with.

    All of these words can be used to apply to the person’s RIGHTS to their views.. I appreciate their right… I “treasure” their right… I “value” their right… I DO NOT value their actual belief.. as with the Mormon example… I can not value what I believe are lies. And if I am clear… I think you believe that I do not love the person or respect them as a person and I am intolerant of them because I take this stance?? This is why I believe that you and Dorian and every other liberal minded person here is suffering from reverse ignorance… you erroneously believe that I am the one with the problem for believing differently from you and from other faiths… it’s ridiculous and “reverse ignorance”… because you all believe that it is me that is ignorant and intolerant… it’s comical.

    so, to answer your questions… I do believe that love and respect go hand in hand in some ways… but those ways do not include respecting another’s beliefs.

    And I have no problem stating that I do NOT respect some people based on their actions…I’ve shown that some people are not worthy of respect… Hitler etc. I do respect their humanity.. but even that can seem to come into question with some people.

    If you can’t understand the differences I am explaining here I can’t help that.. I’ve tried.

    And I do love my neighbor… I’ve stated that over and over… sometimes it takes a lot more effort but I am trying… and I understand that that is what God wants of us.


  88. It is extremely interesting for me to read this article. Thank author for it. I like such topics and anything connected to this matter. I definitely want to read more soon.

    Kate Kuree


  89. Kay you do realize that what you are saying is very unchristian. Think to yourself what would Jesus do. Or in this particular example what did Jesus do, and what did he preach about? God’s highest commandment beside Loving the one true god is to Love thy Neighbor. Jesus’ message was about respecting everyone even if your views and theirs collided. Show your enemies more kindness than your friends. Because it is easy and expected of you to love your family, and those you like. Those you don’t like, if you love and respect someone you don’t agree with, it is with the help of God a person can achieve this.

    Matthew 5:44 is a perfect example.

    AKJV: But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you;

    That verse should be the cornerstone of how a true Christian should see everyone in the world. Because you can have all the faith in the world. But faith cannot be seen, felt or touched. I had a different upbringing, maybe it was wrong that I was taught that the most important part of the entire bible was how God wants us to treat each other. (With love and respect, even if that person is your enemy.) This is something you must work on.

    Even though I do not 100% believe in your beliefs or attitude. Nor do I agree 100% with Bill Keller. I do have to respect and love you both. God commands that out of me. Even if I do not agree with either of your views. If either of you asked me for food I would invite ypu to dinner. If you needed a place to stay for a day or two, I would at least offer you a place to rest. If you struck me I would allow you to strike my other cheek. You do get my point..I would do these things because it is how God wants me to act.


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