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news and things sacred and irreverent put together by opinionated people.

Who are the Devil, Satan, God, Jesus and His Father? How do these Characters fit into religion, and do all of them belong there?

Posted by Enkill_Eridos on July 17, 2009

You might think this to be a strange question, but is it?
In the past hundred years human science has developed immensely, more than in any century ever before, what happened to religion in the past hundred years? We are taught exactly the same thing our great grand parents were taught! The Christian reader might think why must religion develop, its religion, it’s been this way forever, why change it, what is the point, can religion develop? A question we can ask ourselves is this; is religion still valid?

Why would anyone question that! Is probably the shout that would come from millions of religious people around this globe we call home, and we refer to as having four corners, I would attempt to show you the four corners, if you could give me one reason, one concrete undeniable reason to not question religion.

The Characters in the heading has been part of religion since its conception! Or so we like to think! Satan only entered this concept in the book of Job, nowhere before Job are there any positive reference to him, before Satan people were just disobedient and evil, praying to idols, ignoring God, and for that He punished them. The book of Job is thought to have been written in plus minus six hundred to five hundred B.C, some believe it was written by Moses, there are other scholars who however differ on the matter. The point is; there is no concrete proof on its origin, neither the reason for it.

If the dating is close to accurate then Satan made his appearance three thousand three hundred and eighteen years after creation according to the Bible, in effect we were then without Satan for that number of years.

What is a point of concern in this book is the fact that God appointed Satan to invoke pain in this man Job, by having his children killed to “test” his faith. Also should he pass this test he would be “richly” rewarded, which if you read the book to the end you will find that Job eventually after having admitted his “guilt” is rewarded by becoming even richer than he was before his “fall”. A reward concept initiated by “God”.

Then six hundred years later Jesus was born, three thousand nine hundred and eighteen years after creation according to the Bible. Jesus grew up and started his highly controversial preaching’s. In quite a number of his debates with the church of the time, and to groups of people he spoke to Jesus made some really strange and thought provoking statements. One which is probably the reason for his death is this:

Quote, John chapter 8 verses 42 to 44 “Jesus said to them,” If God really were your Father, you would love me, because I came from God and now I am here. I did not come on my own authority, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to listen to my message. 44 You are the children of your Father, the Devil, and you want to listen to your Father’s desires. From the beginning he was a murderer and has never been on the side of truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he is only doing what is natural to him, because he is a liar and the father of all lies.”

Did Jesus said since Satan, or did he say, “Since the beginning”? His name calling was what eventually got him killed. We are taught in churches that Jesus died for our sins, but did he? What did Caiaphas really meant with these words? I quote; John chapter 11 verse 49 to 52 “One of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said, ‘what fools you are! 50 Don’t you realize that it is better for you to let one man die for the people, instead of having the whole nation destroyed?” then in the next verse; this, 51 “Actually, he did not say that of his own accord; rather, as he was high priest that year, he was prophesying that Jesus was going to die for the Jewish people,” then as if an after thought, 52“and not only for them, but also to bring together into one body all the scattered people of God.”

The manner this was put together is a clear indication that the church was going to make Jesus look like a martyr, re-create him into something he was not, and they did, we all believe today that he actually died for our sins. Jesus did say they want to follow their Father’s desires! Jesus did call their Father/God, the Devil where does that leave Satan, and where does that leave Jesus and his Father?

The above quote also leave a feeling of disbelief regarding the words “rather, as he was high priest that year he was prophesying”, could you only prophesize being a high priest? And why the ‘rather’, such an amateurish effort to try and make one believe something which is clearly not what they imply it to be.

God’s goal was to enrich his followers, physically! Jesus had a different idea!

Did Jesus came to support religion, or was his purpose perhaps something totally different?

Walter Muller.

For those interested; Jesus the Keeper of the truth, http://www.authorhouse.com/bookstore/itemDetail.aspx?bookid=59758 and Unchaste Deception,

http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/unchaste-deception/2486291 the names of two books published regarding the above.


27 Responses to “Who are the Devil, Satan, God, Jesus and His Father? How do these Characters fit into religion, and do all of them belong there?”

  1. Enkill_Eridos said

    This was written by someone that wants to be an author that has followed our blogs in the past. I was asked to post it on his behalf


  2. I do not get where the writer got that the Bible has all these dates.


  3. In Chapter 11 of the Book of John, Jesus resurrects a man. He is getting too popular because of that. Caiaphas was the leader of the Sadducees. The Sadducees were more a political force than a spiritual movement. Not only was Jesus cutting into that political power among the Jews, but, was causing the Romans concern. There had been rebellions and there was a rumor that Jesus might lead one himself.

    So, the Sadducees felt it was better to turn over Jesus than to let the Romans be provoked into acts of repression. So, Caiaphas said:

    You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.


  4. Archbishop Ussher, I believe.


  5. I do not believe Ussher is mentioned in the Bible. What is your source for that promotion to Archbishop? He must have been the Archbiship of Ulster. HA!HA!HA!

    I see nothing in the history of Ussher that would lead one to believe he was inspired, particularly well educated, or even having access to research sources.

    Of course, there is this just to begin:


  6. princessxxx said

    i think god & satan were once a hot couple. satan is a chick, check out the sistine chapel. satan has great big breasts.

    anyway, they broke up. (god is very jealous) and now we all have to pay.


  7. princessxxx said

    oh, and thanks walter muller for your post.


  8. I am curious as to whom you think is Satan on the Sistine Chapel, but that is an illustration which is one artist’s concept. It is not Scripture or even likely based on Scripture. It is a world view of that area in that era in the conception of God and his creation.


  9. Hors Service said

    I didn’t understand the whole point the author is trying to make, but something at the beginning aroused my interest:

    “In the past hundred years human science has developed immensely, more than in any century ever before, what happened to religion in the past hundred years? We are taught exactly the same thing our great grand parents were taught!”

    Well, I don’t think Religion in itself must evolve. The Church, yes. But isn’t the goal of Religion to come back to the absolute Truth? Something like, the stem doctrine. To follow Jesus and prophets true commandments, in the case of Christianity.
    To me, Science goes forwards, Religion goes backward (with nothing bad in “backward”).

    The world turns, but Religion is still the same, in a certain way, it reassures people, no? Isn’t it its goal?


  10. He was nominated Primate of All Ireland and Archbishop of Armagh in 1625 and succeeded Christopher Hampton.


  11. johnlloydscharf said

    I missed that fact about him being Archbishop of the Church of Ireland. It is still Anglican, however, and there is no such thing as infallability for an Archbishop.


  12. I’m not saying he was right, obviously: but the dates in the above article look as if they are based on his chronology.


  13. Betty, I agree with that. My point is that not only are they not realistic, but they are not even good scholarship for the time. Nor was his timeline ever much but a guideline for most. I use it myself to get an idea of chronological order. It is good for the order, but not as an absolute dating method.


  14. Karen said

    Well that’s kind of stupid post. It doesn’t matter why the Jews or the Romans had him murdered or what their motive was. It’s why The Father God had him die and why Jesus agreed. That reason was for our sins.
    Can’t people reason anymore? Who has time to address all of his erroneous deductions???


  15. Karen, if you do not have time to address this forum without making comments like “stupid post,” perhaps you should consider not posting at all. It DOES matter why and how Jesus was crucified. In fact, it matters what hour of the day it happened. If you think the writer has “erroneous deductions,” pick out one as a priority and address it rather than making contentions without a legitimate argument.


  16. Walter Muller said

    Hi Everybody, Princess, you said thank you for the post, you’re welcome, John you and Betty are debating the times given in the post regarding Adam to Jesus!

    It is not from an outside source. In Genesis chapter 5 there is a list of Adam’s descendants up to Abraham, with the age of each at the time the next one was born, if you add all those ages up, excluding Abraham, but including him at the time he went to Palestine you find 2024 years since Adam, Abraham according to the Good News Bible 1977 went to Palestine at age 75 1900 B.C, should you then add 1900 to 2024 Jesus was then born 3918 years after Adam was created or born.
    John you mentioned that Caiaphas was a Sadducee, According to the book of John in chapter 11 he was also High Priest of that Year, which makes him a leader of the spiritual sect or church of the time.
    Horst the point I am trying to make is with the info in the article to attempt to see if Jesus really did support religion or not, you have all looked through the Bible and some have actually studied it, what is you’re thoughts? Had he not come to support religion, have we then totally missed his quest? If he had not come in support of religion, and we had followed, where would we be today in relation to religion?


  17. Karen, in the unlikely event you ever come back, feel free to address us in any way you see fit.


  18. Walter Muller said

    Karin, a question implied on the post is also; did he die for our sins? or for another reason altogether? Did he perhaps die because he was against religion? He did state that we were worshipping “the Devil” since the beginning! This Devil being a lie perhaps! of which he wanted no part, and tried to point out to us, do you think it has merit to think that perhaps we have been conned by the God of the Old Tetament, and that Jesus tried to show us that? In a sense religion is supposed to reassure us as Hors mentioned, but do everybody feel the same, we are not all religious, and some of us do feel threatened, rather than reassured by it!


  19. dorian said

    hello everybody, it looks like we’re still having comments go to the moderation cue for no apparent reason, still. i just plucked out three more out of the bucket, from kay, princess and walter. e_e is looking into a possible programming glitch.
    it’s a bit annoying because the flow and momentum of discussion is broken. working on a post; will join your interesting sessions in a while.


  20. princessxxx said

    thanks dorian, my last comment went into the pending and for some reason i couldn’t approve it even though it was my own post. ?????????? i didn’t understand that, but thanks for dealing with the issue. (a conservative conspiracy, maybe?)


  21. Well, we are all fools here and Bettyslocomb has SPOKEN. SO, if Karen comes back she should feel free to abuse, amuse, and mock.

    King James Bible
    Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

    So, I wouldn’t want anyone to lose their fool status. Here. Let me punch your card.


  22. Walter, that was a daft and stupid post.


  23. Walter Muller said

    Thank you Dorian. I wondered what was keeping the posting down.


  24. Walter Muller said

    Thank you for the vote of confidence John.


  25. dorian said

    thoughts re. walter’s post:
    Jesus was a saviour. he was a good, good man whose soul reached perfection of the christ level. he saved many in his time with his teachings. Jesus’ spirit is still saving many from the many (d)evils that plague our existence.
    was the ‘father’ he was praying to the same ‘father’ that believers then and now pray to? because he was a jew, are we (believers) right in assuming that was he praying to the hebrew god of the old testament?
    i believe there is one God and whether his name is yahweh, jehovah, zeus or aton, it is one and the same God that we pray to . different religions appropriate different names and attributes to their ‘God’ according to their culture or interpretation of their doctrines as presented to them by their church founders.
    but who was it that Jesus was referring to as father and God – is he the same wrathful and vengeful God that killed his own children, the God of creation according to the old testament? is this the same God that will be judging all of us (believers) in the afterlife? or was Jesus’ father and God not the one that was being worshipped by his people and Jesus was trying to convey this in his teachings…


  26. Walter Muller said
    July 20, 2009 at Monday, July 20, 2009
    Thank you for the vote of confidence John.

    Think nothing of it. No thought was required. That was the point. Obviously, stubborn, ignorant, and daft are terms far more meaningful than I can perceive as I have seen Betty justifying them as well. She is stubborn, ignorant, and daft as well. It must be some kind of blog she eek for this blog.


  27. dorian said

    well then that’s divine justice for you. we’re all stubborn, ignorant, and daft here. thats why people like to visit our asylum so much. it’s got to be entertaining to them as well. and don’t forget educational!


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