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news and things sacred and irreverent put together by opinionated people.

Healthcare Rationing is Under Way

Posted by kayms99 on November 22, 2009

Even before the new Healthcare bill is passed… Obama is confidently and arrogantly jumpstarting the plan to save money on healthcare.  And this particular avenue of saving money is called RATIONING.  It SHOULD be a sign to him that Government funded healthcare is problematic.  Either he’s not intelligent enough to understand this or he DOESN’T CARE.  He has higher (more personal) agendas.

Fox News Friday, November 20, 2009 
By Marrecca Fiore

Days after a government task force radically changed its guidelines for using mammograms to screen for breast cancer, another critical preventive test — Pap smears – is under the microscope, heightening concern that both might be a first step down a slippery slope toward health care rationing.

On Monday, the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force recommended that doctors delay mammography screening for breast cancer until the age of 50. The recommendation goes against the American Cancer Society’s long-held position that women receive their first mammogram by the age of 40 and follow up with yearly mammograms until the age of 74. 

Breast cancer is the leading cancer in women and the second-leading cause of cancer death in women. 

Doctors, patients and lawmakers lashed out against the revised recommendation, calling it a first step toward health care rationing as the Senate moves toward a vote Saturday on its version of legislation that would overhaul health care — including government-funded alternative to private insurance.

In what some see as further attack on women’s health care, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists recommended Thursday that women delay cervical cancer exams, also called Pap smears, until the age of 21 and that women younger than 30 undergo cervical cancer screening once every two years instead of an annual exam. The organization also said that women age 30 and older can be screened once every three years.

The recommendations, the college said, are based on scientific evidence that suggests more frequent testing leads to overtreatment of irregular Pap smears, which can harm a young woman’s chances of carrying a child full term.

Reaction to the recommendation has been mixed.

“I think it’s bad timing with the whole health-care reform effort going on and the mammogram recommendations that came out earlier this week,” said FoxNews.com managing editor of health Dr. Manny Alvarez, who opposes the new mammogram recommendations. “But these particular guidelines don’t fall into the criteria of saving money. These guidelines have to do with minimizing injuries to women that are of reproductive age.”

But Dr. Elizabeth Eden, an obstetrician/gynecologist and professor of obstetrics and gynecology at New York University School of Medicine in New York City, disagrees and says it’s another attempt by the government to cut costs on preventative medicine.

“I think it’s a bad idea,” she told Fox News Friday. “I think a large number of adolescents are sexually active and by the age of 21 we’re talking about what could be five or six years removed from their first sexual experience.”

The leading cause of cervical cancer in the U.S. is the human papillomavirus (HPV), a common sexually transmitted disease among women and men, which is why sexually active women should be regularly screened for cervical cancer, Eden said.

“There is no money being saved by not testing,” Eden said. “The test isn’t as expensive as the study suggests. There is severe risk in not testing these women and the article is scaring them away from routine tests that could potentially save their lives.”

Still, unlike breast cancer, which can be quite aggressive in spreading to the lymph nodes and other organs such as the lungs, cervical cancer is considered a “slow-moving” cancer.

And Alvarez, a high-risk obstetrician and chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology and Reproductive Science at Hackensack University Medical Center in New Jersey, said many of his patients have been injured by the treatment administered to them after an irregular Pap smear.

“Many abnormal Pap smears do not need any medical treatment and yet there has been an abuse in surgical treatment,” he said. “This has led to a large amount of women now having pregnancy complications, such as premature deliveries, incompetent cervix and vaginal cuff damage — all due to surgical follow-ups to irregular Pap smears.

“With mammography, it’s different,” Alvarez added. “Breast cancer is a hidden killer. I’ve only seen two cases of aggressive cervical cancer in my career and that was in women who had never had any type of screening in their lives.”


14 Responses to “Healthcare Rationing is Under Way”

  1. dorian said

    if they’re talking about recommending less frequent mammograms et al., if it’s free, government funded, those uninsured women would still be better off. women who cannot afford insurance do not have mammograms at all. my friend mary had a good point there.


  2. Enkill_Eridos said

    Why is everyone talking like the government JUST started this? Medicare and Medicaid (Believe it or not, it is FREE government funded health-care, but it is not available to all. Just those that qualify for Welfare, and or disability/retirement.) The Medicare, Medicaid, and VA health care systems go through this every fiscal year. Fact during the Bush Administration, Medicare and Medicaid stopped paying fully for some prescriptions. The programs did alleviate some of the cost. But not all. The prescriptions you ask? Generic prescriptions that treated serious illness such as MS, and Cancer. In some cases Cancer is not preventable. (If you say it is, tell that to my Aunt who died of lung cancer. She never smoked a cigarette or lived in an industrial area.)And the cause for MS is undetermined. But both treatments are very expensive. Also Medicare and Medicaid started to pull funds for in home health care. Basically for Medicare and Medicaid to pay for in home health-care, it was through Hospice. This was in 2004. But yet, Abortion was covered. Provided there was a valid reason as listed by the Government.

    The fact is if you don’t have children under five, and make more than 20k a year. Basically to get Medicare under 65 or without a disability, you need to have kids and work a minimum wage job. Anything higher than that and you’re ineligible. Also another fact, most small businesses cannot afford employer based health care. The insurance companies charge more than those businesses could afford. This leads to employees leaving for bigger corporations, they do it because there is no other alternative.

    But yet when Obama wants to give the same opportunity to all citizens, not just the poor or people who work for businesses that make over $250k a year in profit, as opposed to a family owned and operated small business. All of a sudden that is Socialist. The fact if you start a small business and can make a profit, you are in the minority. That is very sad. Big business and big government has eroded our American Spirit. Ford was a small business, Microsoft was started out of a Garage. But now you would be lucky if you can actually start a business, no matter the industry, and survive six months. This has been going on for eight years prior to Obama. Since 2003, the only real jobs you can start at entry level and have job security is, government jobs, military, or Haliburton.

    I mean more American citizens are leaving to Canada, because they have families to think about. The laborers and other blue collar workers in America, they don’t want to worry about how would they afford to pay medical bills if someone in their household got sick. The ones that make too much to go on welfare, because they have to work three or four jobs just to make ends meet. This happens mainly because the companies can only afford a certain amount of full-time workers. Ten years ago, these same workers could have had a full time job to make ends meet, and a part-time job for the extra little things. Why penalize the person that cleans your floors, either at your home or office? Why must everyone focus on the very little things, that really is not new, to try to shut down a program that would benefit a majority of this countries citizens?

    I will cry socialism, when every single company and employees are paid by the Department of Treasury. I am not talking Bail-out money, I am talking paychecks that say US Department of Treasury. That is socialism.

    Health care being provided to people who cannot afford it is not. That is called responsible government, or a smart politician. Whether it succeeds or fails does not matter, what matters is that it was attempted. I don’t think it will because most of the left-wing conservatives that are against it, cannot be bothered to read it. They take the word of someone who claims they have and because that someone said it, it means it must be true. The same is true for right-wing liberals.

    Let’s just all follow the sheep, let’s just be oblivious, ignorant and be herded right to the slaughterhouse…

    Also you’re talking like it is a surprise that government funded health care is problematic. Have you ever tried to get any kind of government assistance? Of course there will be problems, and hopefully the existing problems will be fixed with the ones that expansion will cause. But why shouldn’t every tax payer get the OPPORTUNITY to receive government funded health care? I don’t think it should only be available to the impoverished, or someone receiving government benefits. Before Obama said let’s give all Americans the same Opportunity when it came to health care, no one gave a shit. Before we invaded a country that had nothing to do with Osama Bin Laden, or the World Trade Centers; thus, putting us in a huge deficit and close to a depression. NO ONE CARED WHAT THE GOVERNMENT DID WITH GOVERNMENT FUNDED HEALTHCARE.

    But now when someone says, let’s give every American this opportunity instead of the poor and disabled. That’s when people care? When a politician actually tries to do what’s right by the citizens? When a politician actually attempts to follow through on one of his many promises? This is the kind of thing people complain about? How is government funded health care bad? It really isn’t going to hurt the insurance companies, if you have a plan it shouldn’t be affected. If you can afford to pay a private insurance company out of pocket, or if you work for Wal-Mart or another big corporation. Why should you care? Why should government funded health care only be provided by those that either have real problems or know how to work the system. Why should government funded health care only be available to those who really cannot afford rent month to month?

    You said “He has higher (more personal) agendas.”

    Like being a father and husband? Or trying to fix a broken economy, and our nation’s image? Maybe the more personal agenda he is trying to address is that America is not going to lead another genocidal war against Islam, like the Church did between the 10th-16th centuries. That way we don’t get attacked. Or maybe he is trying to fix a non-existent foreign policy so that we can retain the allies we have. Or maybe he is trying to cooperate with the rest of the world (believe it or not without them our economy will never recover.) And is trying to see what we need to do to fix the GLOBAL ECONOMY. Since in all essence America was a big contributor to the GLOBAL RECESSION.

    But I guess none of that is important.


  3. Princessxxx said

    i’m on government run healthcare.
    my prescriptions alone are 2,500.00 a month.

    i did work and pay into the system and could not get private insurance due to pre-existing conditions.

    oh and e_e, you forget to mention another of obama’s personal agenda,
    dealing with the attacks of right wing nut jobs like fox new and teabaggers.


  4. Enkill_Eridos said

    He’s hired a White House Aide for that job.


  5. kay~ms said

    EE said: “The fact is if you don’t have children under five, and make more than 20k a year. Basically to get Medicare under 65 or without a disability, you need to have kids and work a minimum wage job. Anything higher than that and you’re ineligible. ”

    As you stated.. there are going to be problems no matter which way we go. A government healtcare option for all will eventually eliminate private heathcare… the “we can keep our current policy” is a bunch of crap. Yeah, we can keep it until the company goes out of business and then it’s on to government healthcare. Total dependence on the government. And total dependence on Obama’s heathcare panels to decided if we will get treatments for certain things… if it is affordable. Which, quess what?… if government healthcare is run anything like ALL of the other government run entities… we will be turned away… and will have no where else to go because the private companies couldn’t compete and went out of business.

    The right isn’t denying that changes need to be made to make healthcare insurance available to everyone. They are saying that government run healthcare isn’t the answer, it will only make things worse in the long run.

    Once again, liberals prefer to be ignorantly blind before they will acknowledge the dangers of following the views of the left. They cannot admit that they might be wrong.

    The government is slowly moving in an obvious direction gaining more and more control along the way until we are totaly dependent on them…when they will have complete control.

    It’s unbelievable that you all cry foul about the death panels and rationed healthcare… even when they come up with this insane new guideline for using mammograms to screen for breast cancer. This is proof that the government is not interested in the well being of Americans… this new guideline will cause MORE deaths from breast cancer… but hey… at least everyone has access to healthcare insurance, “because Obama cares about us!”…. just don’t get cancer or any other expensive disease and be over a certain age (or under a certain age).


  6. obama the antichrist said

    why does this remind me of the obama-money. where people were lined up to recieve money and they called it “obama-money” and when asked where is it coming from they either said i dont know or obama….hmmmmm


  7. princessxxx said

    i never heard of that obama-money, i’m gonna get me some of that obama-money.


  8. Enkill_Eridos said

    You mean the money you get for owning a house that is worth $50k or more? Of course people kinda took that out of context and thought it was going to be a big payday. It turned out it was no more $500 per household. And you have to actually reside there three weeks out of the month…It had something to do with taxes. That is long since over, and not many cashed it in. The red tape was thick on that one. Because you had to be in good standing with your mortgage company if you had one. You also had to provide proof as well.


  9. dorian said

    people afraid of health insurance reform believe the scare propaganda of those who are bound to lose the most money out of this whole thing:the insurance companies and pharmaceuticals.

    to all those against a healthcare reform: the corporations have you believing the opposite. it is now that you need to pray you or your loved ones don’t get cancer. no amount of your insurance is enough to not bankrupt you. this is one of the reasons why a reform is needed. your government is trying to do a good thing for you and you’re fighting it?
    c’mon, think logically for once. or move out of the country. let’s see how long it takes for you to realize how good you have it here.


  10. Enkill_Eridos said

    Dorian banned for agreeing when I am trying to have a debate. Need to keep the political game faces on and share your ideas on the healthcare reform. Put it all out there every reason and why. I want to analyze it and disect it and get down to the nitty gritty. We haven’t had a true to form political discussion, for a long time. I mean no religious explinations. Just pure what are the reasons I am against this bill. I miss those debates. *sigh* I guess I only get to have fun Election years…

    Kermit: Today has been brought to you by the letter.
    Big Bird: JOINT!
    Kermit: And the number *snickers*
    Big Bird: God you’re messed up.
    Kermit: F**K You! The number F**K You!

    I shit you not this was based on real dialog.


  11. Enkill_Eridos said

    Oh kay i’m not slow thinking. Slow moving physically yes. But not slow where it counts. I understand where you are coming from. But you need to realize that you misunderstand what I am trying to say. We have tax payers, that cannot access the government healthcare system that they have paid into every week. While someone who probably hasn’t recieved a weekly check for work in a few years. We already have a government run health-care program. It would work properly if it was not for the red tape just cluttering up that problem. If there was a lot less Red Tape, then we can afford to have the tax payer actually use this system that is in place. All the health care reform bill is adding more money to the government run health-care system so they can clear up that red tape. it is a very slow moving process. I do understand that. But I was trying to give examples. Here are some explanations to my analogy, that obviously you did not get.

    Five main points:
    1. Health-care system is broken.
    2. Something that is really happening, but dramatized a little.
    3. Welfare guy getting scared, because now everyone can use it.
    4. Allowing a higher tax bracket to allow more citizens to access it.

    Okay now this is how they are going to fix the main problem. Red Tape, they are going to put more funding into health care. They are going to try to minimize an increase of a deficit by taking money out of a near useless program like large scale governmental contracts for instance.
    Now this is all how it should be done. It looks better on paper, but this is what the Bill is going to try to do. This will allow for the government run health care, overseen by the Social Security Agency, so it will be available to a higher tax bracket that the working class will be able to recieve health care. But the government run health care will not be available to those that can be financially comfortable. This bill is targeted at the populace at a whole. So what does this Bill do? It fixes another one of the things, that is broken. How health care insurance is rising. How some companies just leave the state because not enough people can afford their rates. If there is some kind of government regulation that restricts the maximum amount someone can be charged based on their tax bracket. It will be doing this to allow more people to be able to be able to afford private insurance, should they choose not to, or they can’t due to restrictions go with government based insurance. Then what I would do is increase funding for the Insurance Bureau. It does exist but it is so under funded that they are individual state agencies. These type of Surety Agent are best known as Bondsman. But a Surety Agent can legally do much more. A Surety Agent can also investigate insurance companies who break the laws. The current problem with that there are too few laws written to tell an insurance can and cannot do. State Laws do this but a Federal Law would be much harder to bend. This would make it regulated, but not controlled. Of course this is all implemented gradually within a ten year span. This wouldn’t effect your private insurance other than the gradually decrease of your payments.

    Now the government is allowed to restrict the number of procedures done in a year, pertaining to Medicare/Medicaid. This same thing happens in the Private Sector but it varies company to company. The only difference is the Private Insurance companies are not elected officials. And the companies can get away with more.


  12. obama the antichrist said

    how are we going to afford a public option when we owe china 80 billion or 800 billion (one of those two) and are economy is in the toilet and we put out the “stimulus” that has done nothing for us except putting us into more debt. i just dont see how we are going to pay for it without giving everyone european taxes


  13. kay~ms said

    I find it interesting that no one has argued against the point of this story… it is obvious that the GOVERNMENT task force is dangerously changing guidelines in order to save money on healthcare. This is supposed to be better for everyone??

    Dorian said: “people afraid of health insurance reform believe the scare propaganda of those who are bound to lose the most money out of this whole thing:the insurance companies and pharmaceuticals.”

    I think it’s the opposite… it’s the pro reform group that is buying into the propoganda that it’s all about the big companys manipulating us because their profits are in jeopardy.

    While it may be true that these companys will lose money or more realistically, go out of business, the answer is not for government control. Capitalism works the best for everyone. Can it get out of hand? yes but we should correct those problems instead of a complete change in a whole other direction which gives government complete control… you say we should pray to not get cancer because it will bankrupt us? Well, I still see that as better than not going into bankruptcy at all but also not getting any medical care either (or enough medical care to cure us) because of rationing.

    Who here honestly believes that the government can successfully run healthcare without having to utilize “death panels” because of lack of funds??? The government can’t even run the Postal service successfully.

    This is what I mean by dangerous leftist views… they will hurt us in the long run. Capitalism doesn’t have to be “greedy”. It’s not supposed to be. Idealy, we should be able to go after the American dream and look out for our fellow man too. Government control will give us neither. The government cannot look out for our fellow man if it is bankrupt and must ration healthcare.


  14. Enkill_Eridos said

    *sigh* I am not leftist. I read the Bill, on paper that’s what it says. Now what will really happen we do not know. Would kay be right maybe. would I be right maybe. But the Bill is in the best intentions of helping its citizens. If the Bill becomes approved we may not actually see the full Bill integrated for another 10 or 20 years. This Bill isn’t going to be in full effect until then. And again you are implying that this provision goes for private insurance as well. It does not. The government cannot tell an insurance company how many or how few procedures that company can pay for. The government can tell the people, okay for Medicaid and Medicare we cannot afford to pay for everyone to do this specific procedure. We can afford for you to take this procedure this many times in a year. It is well in the governments right to do this. They are providing the money for it. Just like the Private Insurance companies. But things like premium price based on age, and medical history but does not add or subtract for income tax bracket. Those kind of things should be regulated.

    Maybe it should be tried so the American people can see their Government has their best interests in mind. I mean nothing in this bill says you have to opt for either private or government run. Nothing in this bill restricts a citizens right to choose between the two. What this bill does do is provide an opportunity that the citizen can either take or ignore. So what’s so wrong about trying? Cut funding from Government contracts first. Tell them we can’t afford this anymore here is what we will pay you. It’s less take it or leave it. The companies that say no leaves an opening for a contract company that will do the same job, but at the rate the Government offers. Just by doing that the Government can afford to reroute this money to Education, Health care, and Law Enforcement. Truly we cannot afford it. The country cannot afford to pay its civil servants either. That doesn’t mean they don’t try to find the money by shifting budgets until that money is found. This goes the same as all federal funded program budgets.

    We cannot definately tell the outcome of this. But that does not mean I cannot voice my opinion and defend it. I think you are wrong on some points. But I also think that you are misinformed. I don’t see the harm in at least trying it. I mean this is the first time in a long time the Government has tried to help all the citizens in the country. Just in the spirit of trying to help. I think this gesture is a great political move. I think that this gesture is going to be picked apart and debated on until we see if it really works or not.

    And quite honestly according to Florida State Law, the state can ignore my living will and keep me alive against my wishes. This so called death panel has been a debate topic in the health care system for a very long time. This so called death panel has been in effect in some states longer than this bill was written.

    So ya there is some problems currently. Do we need to address some yes. Can we address them while trying to change the system? Yes, are there alternatives? Yes instead fixing the problem then changing policy could create a much bigger problem. Or it could be vice versa. I mean the war in Iraq has already put us close to 300 trillion dollars in debt to China. What is another 80 just to try to be able to give tax paying citizens another option?


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